I do not like Hillary because she is conniving and hateful and is a conmfirmed liar. She states he has expereice but her only expericnes is being the alter ego of an asshole

Single-Payer Health Care. That's lefty-code for Socialized Medicine.

She wants to take your guns away, too. Oh yeah, and raise your taxes.

Hillary Clinton wants to lead the United States down the road to socialism. Her "for the common good" remark sums up her goal. Her "village" is nothing more than a nannyist government.

I agree. Virtually everything this woman espouses is socialistic in nature. She doesn't want to be President. She wants to be the nation's nanny. She and her cohorts, and only they, know what's good for each and every individual. And if you don't fit their idea of what that "individual" should be/act like, then they will MAKE you fit their mold or cast you aside.

Other than that there is a distinct lack of ethics in the woman's (and her husband's) actions from Arkansas right through the White House and into NY State. It is truely amazing to me that she has gotten such support from the news media. If she were a Republican, she would have been hounded out of sight by now.

I think she is a committed Marxist, and Marxism has been proven to be very bad for people.

Every country that has had Marxists take power has seen--in one form or another-- re-education camps, gulags, killing fields, and midnight knocks on the door.

And all of them thought, "That can't happen here."

probably the best liberal-friendly argument against hillary comes from maureen dowd. i can't for the life of me find it online, but there's a famous column she wrote back in the day about how hillary single-handedly destroyed feminism in america. basically, after years and years of standing up for the victims of sexual assault(whether real or not) and condemning abusive men, hillary (and the rest of the dems) took bill's side and did everything she could to slander and ruin the reputations of the many women he had harrassed and abused. in other words, being a Democrat and being in power trumped being a feminist, and feminism has never recovered.

see also, more recently, dowd's cutting compliment here:
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2007/07/most-people-are-not-worried-about.html

but there is no question that she's the only remotely viable candidate among the dems (which says a lot more about the other dems than about her). as i wrote on my blog a while back, she's the only one with the balls to bomb something, even if only to distract from her latest scandal. and i'm very pro-bombing things.

p.s. didja see the latest news on Edwards? how he complained about his sore butt and even got butt cream to reduce the swelling? i'm not saying anything, but you know what i'm thinking...
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/NEWS/70725054/1001

I'd make the argument that Hillary Clinton is unfit to be President, but not because she did not have the intelligence, discipline, decisiveness, or other skills necessary to hold the office. I'm willing to stipulate she may have the capacity to pull of a Democrat version of Margaret Thatcher, Queen Elizabeth, Indira Ghandi, or Golda Mier.

She is possibly the smarter of the two in the Clinton marriage, and she certianly has a better reputation for being the one who can maintain the discipline necessary to campaign and govern. Bill probably owes as much of his own election to her as anyone else on his campaign staff.No reason not to acknowledge one's oppnent's strong points.

But I would argue she's unfit to be President on two general grounds: I disagree with her too much over politics, and I don't trust her.

Since politics is the business of picking different political policies over others, you'll have to make up your own mind on those (and good luck persuading anybody else over them), spend the time on Google, or just ask more specific policy questions, and I'll see what I can do about making an argument one way or another on them.

That leaves trust. During Bill Clinton's administration one of her functions was to serve as the liason between the further left elements on the Democratic side of the aisle. Bill played the DLC 'new Democrat' moderate, practical, business-friendly, etc. She kept the Democratic wing of the Democratic party happy. Which gave her a record of taking all manner of positions she conveniently dropped when she ran for senate, and continues to drop as she positions herself for the general election while the rest of the Dem candidates are busy trying to build support for the primaries.

And now the roles are reversed. Bill is out there keeping the party base happy while Hillary courts the moderates and Independents. which does she truly believe? How would a Hillary presidency differ on those policy questions from a Bill presidency? I have no way of knowing, because I have no way of knowing where she really stands. I'll leave it to others to question her trustworthiness on any number of greater or lesser scandals from Whitewater Billing records, her role in the 90's National Health Care push, etc, etc.

I cannot trust what Hillary says, and the Clinton/Lewinsky affair (take that however you like) provided sufficient evidence alone that she (and Al Gore for that matter) was far more willing to abandon principle to get or hold onto power than she would risk losing power to hold onto principle.

I have a favorite saying, "Arguing principle from convenience is no Principle at all." It is, in short, Bullshit artistry. Assuming you can live with her policy positions, she may be fit to be President; it wouldn't be the first time the office has been held by a Bullshit Artist. But I wouldn't trust her with the job anymore than I would buy a used car from her.

Why I hate Hillary Clinton, in quotes:

“Fairness doesn’t just happen. It requires the right government policies.”

"F**k off! It’s enough that I have to see you shit-kickers every day, I’m not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut."
(From the book "American Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p. 90 - Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with "Good morning.")

"You f**king idiot."
(From the book "Crossfire" p. 84 - Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event.)

"If you want to remain on this detail, get your f**king ass over here and grab those bags!"
(From the book "The First Partner" p. 259 - Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident.)

"We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices…. Government has to make those choices for people"
(From the book "I’ve Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p 20 - Hillary to Rep. Dennis Hastert in 1993 discussing her expensive, disastrous taxpayer-funded health care plan)

"I am a fan of the social policies that you find in Europe"
(Hillary in 1996 From the book "I’ve Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 76 - Hillary in 1996)

And the grand-daddy of them all:

"Many of you are well enough off that [President Bush’s] tax cuts may have helped you. We’re saying that for America to get back on track, we’re probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We’re going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
(Hillary grandstanding at a fund raising speech in San Francisco; SFGate.com 6/28/2004.)

I don't hate Hillary. I believe she is a long-suffering wife of a womanizer, and so deserves pity. I think that she is also a boring policy wonk, and so deserves snarky comments.

While I don't hate her, I never want her to be President. Why?

* she believes that a small group of smart people are better at making decisions about my life than I am

* she believes that a government program will run my health care better than my local doctor does

* she subscribes to the John Kerry "I-voted-for-it-before-I-voted-against-it" stance on the war in Iraq

* she has produced no policy, directive, idea or goal that does not involve increasing the size, scope and power of the federal government

* she appears to check opinion polls on what her "core values" ought to be...today

In short, she is quite nearly socialist in her thoughts and actions, quite nearly amoral in her ethics, and quite nearly crazy...in general.

mightysamurai:

We’re going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.

Yep, that's pretty much straightforward Marxism. I do have to give her credit for having the balls to say it in public.

A friend of mine describes her as "Hugo Chavez in a pantsuit."

Did someone say "for the common good"? Because now she almost sounds like Gerralt Grindelwald, and he was a very bad Dark wizard. Also, she's an even bigger panderer than most politicians -- here's a great example.

Let's see...

1. Guns.

2. Class Warfare Economics

3. Treated her Secret Service detail like shit.

Numero Uno with me is this - this is the "World's Smartest Woman" (cue the Helen Reddy..); one of the top legal minds in the country (at least according to the lefties). Somebody who supposedly makes Madame Currie look like Britney Spears. And yet, when the time came to step up and throw Bill's ass out on the street - to show her daughter that you don't have to take it when hubby (or boyfriend) can't keep it in his pants; that sometimes your dignity and self-respect are worth more than power. She bent over and greased up for all the world to see. Hell, I've seen greasy spoon waitresses (making less money per month than Hillary could bill in a day) either toss some asshole out or take off with the kids - just to keep their self respect.

In my book - Hillary has none.

fete

Mrs. Clinton, has too much of a likening for the levers of power, and once she has them in her grasp, she will be able to implement what she knows would be good for all of us. I feel like among her bad qualities, Mrs. Clinton, would say or do anything, in order to win. Her affected black accent when addressing a black church group earlier this year was insulting. She is one of the senators who were for the war before she was against it. MY own personal bugaboo, she is anti gun. She is a member of that certain leftwing elite who believe that success should be punished, or at least penalized to help our less motivated or less able brethren. And, it is my feeling, that if she were in the white house she would take another stab at some sort of universal health care, which we, the employed would pay for. Her good qualities or quality is, that she has a backbone, I think she could play hard ball with foreign leaders if it was called for, and she beloved it was needed. Well, this is my take on Hillary.

Why we hate Hillary.

1: She is a leaf in the wind; whichever way popular opinion is blowing she follows. IE: NO Principals whatsoever

2: She's a Marxist plain and simple. lipstick on a pig it's still a pig and all that.

3: She thinks we are sheeple and we should all be told what and how to run our lives

4: BEND OVER AND PAY YOU TAXES LIKE A GOOD SLAVE.

5: HIllarycare....

6: Feigning love for SlickWilly through all of his shenanigans. The only reason she and IT are together is for political expediency. He is the reason for the perma-scowl she has on her face.

7: No scruples, ethics or principals that you can say she has had consistently beyond the desire for power

Finally,

Do you REALLY think she -wanted- to be a senator? I mean really wanted it? NO--it was a necessary stepping stone to the White House and she knew she could get the leftoids in NY to vote for her since she knew she wouldn't get elected in Arkansas.

Can you spell socialist?

Riverdog:

Her good qualities or quality is, that she has a backbone, I think she could play hard ball with foreign leaders if it was called for, and she beloved it was needed.

Maybe so; at least I hope she has a good quality.

Unfortunately, I can more readily see her using that backbone against the American people. At least the ones that oppose her.

Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record.
Rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record.
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record.
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record.
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record.
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record
Rated 85% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record.
Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes

Her position graphs out as an extreme left-liberal.

As per shown by her voting record...

Stongly Favors:
Choice
Same Sex Marriages
Repeal Tax Cuts on Wealthy
Patriot Act is Harmful
US out of Iran
Replace Oil and Gas with Alternatives
Illegals to Citizen Track

Favors:
Government Funding of Health Coverage
Expand Free Trade
Churches to Provide Welfare Services
Strict Limits on Political Fundraising

Opposes:
Death Penalty
Mandatory 3 strikes rules
Teacher-led Prayer in schools

Stongly Opposes:
Privatize Social Security
Gun Ownership
Expanding Armed Forces
Strict anti-Drug enforcement

You can get everything you want to know about all candidates, their voting records, their quotes, and the whole nine yards here...

http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

If it walks like a Marxist, talks like a Marxist,, and votes like a Marxist...it's Hillary.

The above criticisms apply to Obama and others, not just Hillary. In terms of policy, everything that Hillary would do, Obama would do as badly or worse.

I think the reason for the attacks on Hillary in particular are firstly, she is more electable than the others and is likely to get the nomination. No point wasting energy demonizing someone who isn't going to be Democratic candidate.

Secondly, she is more politically savvy (i.e. dishonest, cunning and devious). Therefore, she is more likely to actually get to implement leftist policy and also more likely to successfully sidestep blame when things turn to crap.

I'm likely just going to repeat what everyone else here has said. But I'll do it list-style! With numbers! And fancy doo-dads! Like, uh...letters!

1. My *biggest* problem with her is that, as JohnnyC touched on, she has no self-respect. She stayed with Bill after his scandal so that she could look like a martyr and gain public sympathy for her "bravery". Now she's using that sympathy in her bid for president, simpering and whining about things (in an authoritative tone, of course), and expecting people to go, "Oh, well - she stayed with Bill, and she's a strong woman. She's not complaining; she's trying to make a difference!" People compare her to a man, say that she's a traitor to her gender - nope. I disagree. I think she's the best example of a manipulative woman there is. And that's one major reason why I won't vote for her. Ever.

2. Socialist health care? Oh, puh-LEAZE. No, thanks. I'm not letting my taxes go up so that people can have yet another excuse not to get a job. Also, the day I have to get on a waiting list for something like a root canal because my doctor can only do so many a year (oh, and I can't go to another doctor, because my neighborhood will have a delegated medical community), is the day I start yanking my own teeth out.

3. The debates sealed it for me. The simpering and whining I mentioned earlier? She did that at the beginning and end of every question. She was very rarely on-topic, and she played to a different audience every few minutes, it seemed. Her Kerry-esque (yes, I realize a lot of people compare her to Kerry because of this, too, but it's TRUE) flip-flopping on the Iraq issue? Talk about pandering.

4. This is a personal thing, but I HATE HATE HATE the look in her eyes. She looks cold and calculating, even while she's speaking about her "experience" with refugees and battered women. Every word is measured. Every pause timed. Now, I'm not a fan of emotional outbursts from candidates (*cough*howard dean*cough*), but to me that sort of thing proves that they're human. I'd rather have a human being running for office than a machine. And Hilary is a machine.

5. "Hilary is a machine? But what about the health care stuff? The government charity for the poor? How can you call her not human?" Because NO rational human being is that much of a fucking puss. Key word is "rational". Even Ghandi fought, and he was a pacifist. But he had enough sense to know when it was appropriate to speak, and when you had to just sit there and take it, then walk away. Hilary will never learn that there IS such a thing as "too much compassion", otherwise known as being "too politically correct". The sort of thinking she does will seriously fuck us over if she's elected to the presidency. She WILL try to rule Congress and The Senate, and not just metaphorically...and she'll do it all in the name of "compassion". CREEPY, I tell you.

6. She's ugly. Sorry, I had to throw that in there, because you told me not to. :-P What can I say? I'm ornery.

Yeah, I can't disagree with the "smart" part of her. She's definitely not lacking in the IQ department, but I really wonder if she has any common sense. I think the answer is no. Add that to her lack of self-respect and desire to get where Bill was (you can taste it...she REALLY wants to show him what's what), and you get a very dangerous person to have in office. Bush is kind of dumb AND doesn't have much common sense, but at least he's consistent...lol.

mightysamurai and trainer made the best arguments of the lot.

"We’re going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

Excuse me? Who the hell are you to take away something my mind, sweat and work gave me. F*ck you. You can have my accomplishments (and my guns) when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

"We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices. Government has to make those choices for people."

Maybe she is correct on this one. She is, after all, Senator Hillary Clinton. Someone had to cast some votes to get her into office. Let her move to the Lone Star state. Let's see how long one of her anti-gun legislations or immigration reform scams would last. She would be working as the mail courier for the janitor by the end of the week.

Another reason to hate Hillary: Look at Hugo Chavez and imagine a bad blonde dye and a husband banging the secretary on the presidential couch.

She's a socialist and she's in favor of nationalized "health"care.

As somebody who has endured, survived and escaped both (and worked for ten years in the latter), that's all I need to know to confirm that she's less fit to be president than a cockroach.

And, I repeat, I have endured, survived, escaped and worked under socialism, so I really don't need any "reasonable" know-nothings from these shores to tell me how they know better than I and how it will all be different here.

Their opinions are the only things that rank lower than the Hildebeest on my list of things worth noticing, because they have no farking clue what the fark they're talking about.

I do. In spades.

'Nuff said.

The only other Democrat who matters in this race is Obama. Why is Hillary worse than he is?

I think Obama has some moral grounding. While I may disagree with his politics, he doesn't seem to rub my face in it as much. He has not yet demonstrated the "values du jour" that Hillary (and even moreso, Bill) made infamous. His liberal tendencies have not yet become steeped in socialism.

In other words, he is "not yet" as bad as she is. Not yet.

Mighty Samuri, I think I love you.

To your list I would add Gary Aldrich's comment from his book "Unlimited Access" that Hillary made people actually jump into other people's offices if they were walking down the hall and saw her coming because you were not permitted to share the hallway space with her.

I can't stand the hypocrisy of her pretending to be so compassionate and caring (remember the "Politics of Meaning" Times magazine article with her all in white, posing as St. Hillary?) while treating those around her, particularly those who are willing to lay down their lives for her, as sub-human peasants.

And speaking of hypocrisy, the disingenuousness of claiming that she managed to turn a $10,000 investment into $100,000 at the expense of the Tyson account "by reading the Wall Street Journal" is beyond belief.

And being a New Yorker, I would add to the list of reasons to despise Shrillary her opportunistic grab for the open New York senate seat before she had even moved the state, which infuriated me. Carpetbagger.

I'll bring up one more thing I haven't seen mentioned here: I think Mrs. Clinton knows what was in Sandy Berger's socks, and I don't think there's any hope that she'll come clean. That would ordinarily disqualify her by itself as far as I'm concerned.

But here's the thing: leave aside partisan interest in the Dems fielding the maximally beatable candidate, and assume for a moment that a Democrat will win in 2008. Which Democrat would make a better leader of the country for four years? Maybe Bill Richardson, but after that . . .

If you read the Harry Potter books...she's Delores Umbridge. 'Nuff said.

All right! Now we are getting somewhere. This is exactly the kind of stuff I wanted to hear about - the direct quotes are the most powerful (thank you MightySamurai). The whole socialism/Marxism/common good thing sticks out to me the most.

Also I remembered something while walking the dogs this morning - isn't there some shenanigans involving Vince Foster? What was that all about? I know Hillary was involved somehow (I suppose this is one thing I could Google easily). Thank you all, you are awesome. Keep the comments coming, I'll be reading them for a while.

She's a commie. And old fashioned, idealistic, holier-than-thou commie.

See above for evidence.

I agree with most of the reasons given already. What honks me off about Mrs. Clinton is that she was raised in the Chicago suburbs but re-cast herself as a New Yorker for purposes of getting a powerful Senate seat. Didn't she say something like "I've always been a Yankees fan"?

Losing and finding the Rose law firm billing records, bad.

The miraculous $100,000 return on a short term investment, bad.

When I hear anything come from Hillary's mouth, I believe that she doesn't think the rules apply to her because she is a so-called public servant who knows what is good for us.

Has the woman ever admitted she was wrong or that she made a mistake when such admission wasn't politically advantageous?

The other posters have brought up good points, so I'll try not to repeat them.

To play with the slogan from her "husband's" 1st campaign for President ...

"It's the Entitlement, Stupid."

That and the voice. I'm surprised she doesn't realize just how monotone and awful her speaking voice is, especially when she is giving a speech. I'm amazed that no one has sent her to a voice coach -- I'm convinced that once people hear her on a regular basis, they simply won't be able to imagine listening to that voice lecturing them for four years.

Hi Rachel, I'm regular reader, first-time poster (I'm lazy like that). Anyway, I thought I'd give my two cents on the Hillary question.

It's true that a lot of conservatives have a visceral loathing for her--much like a lot of people on the Right (myself included, at the time) hated Bill Clinton in the '90s, and the Left has hated Bush for the past 6 1/2 years. That's my first reason not to prefer Hillary--I don't want another 4-8 years of divisive, zero-sum politics.

Unfair? Sure. What about Bush hatred (or Clinton hatred) was fair? Doesn't change the fact that it's not a place I want to revisit. We've already spent 16 years in Punxsutawney--why anyone would want another 8 is beyond me.

For more specific analysis on why there are better options than Hillary, Tom Barnett has an excellent post here:

http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/2007/07/why_do_i_waver_so.html

Mighty Samuri, I think I love you.

Yes, I seem to have that effect on women.

But I think we should just be friends. These internet romances so rarely work out. :)

Also I remembered something while walking the dogs this morning - isn't there some shenanigans involving Vince Foster? What was that all about?

Vince Foster was a member of the White House staff and a law partner and legal aquaintance of Hillary. He was found dead in Fort Macy Park, just outside DC. There was speculation that Foster was murdered on the orders of one (or both) of the Clintons and dumped in the park as part of a coverup, but I doubt that's what happened.

IMO, Foster shot himself in his office and the Clintons, in an effort to avoid yet another scandal (as I recall, this was at the height of the Whitewater scandal), smuggled his body out and dumped it, hoping people would assume the two incidents were unrelated.

Others have already covered most of it: socialism, dishonesty, pandering, etc.

As to Vince Foster, there was a 30 hour delay releasing his suicide note and inconsistencies in her testimony regarding the delay.

Here's a quick summary (including Vince Foster) of Hillary's lowlights written when the 2004 campaigns were getting started:
DC Line Column

1. All of Bill's baggage and none of his charisma/personal skills.

2. She's an authoritarian. She was a righty authoritarian when she was young. Her exposure to Bill/Yale/the 60s made her a leftist, but she's still an authoritarian.

3. Bill was a DLC/3rd Way Democrat; Hill is a more traditional, more doctrinaire leftist than he is.

4. She wants us to believe that she's a feminist and an advocate for women; to take her seriously enought to give her shot at the most powerful elected office in the world, but she's accomplished nothing - I repeat NOTHING -that Bill's coattails didn't make possible. If she hadn't married him (and stayed married to him through his serial womanizing and harassment of female employees in betrayal of her alleged feminist principles) she'd be an above-average government lawyer somewhere.

Hell, if she'd divorce him I'd actually consider voting for her. (I also feel safe saying that, because it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.)

Reasons why Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is not suitable for the office of Pesident of the United States:

Whitewater land deals.

cattle futures.

overbilling as a Lawyer for the Rose law firm.

Socialized Medicine.

"values and morals du jour."

Using polls to adapt her policies.

Sandy Berger.

Vince Foster.

Pandering to minorities by adapting their speech patterns.

Her last name is Clinton.

"We’re going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

"We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices… Government has to make those choices for people."

Socialism does not work yet she believes in it's principles.

Anti gun ownwership.

Her rhetoric during her college years.

"We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices..." I know I already listed this one but everyone in the US needs to dwell on this little Hilleryism for a few minutes before going into the voting booth.

Thanks for this one sparrow:

"Hillary made people actually jump into other people's offices if they were walking down the hall and saw her coming because you were not permitted to share the hallway space with her."

Maybe this is because (have you ever noticed all her TV shots and pictures are from the waist up) there wasn't enough room left for another person to get by in the hallway because her butt rivals only her ego in breadth?

Since everyone else has covered all of the bases, I can't really add anything about Hillary, so I'll ask another question that's been nagging me. Why do all the liberals want to be called "progressives" now? Are they ashamed of what they are?

I don't hate her, I fear her.

As with all reactionary leftists she doesn't want to govern, she wants to rule.

mightysamurai, my internet romance worked out. And that one with Jay & Deb worked out. And Mr. and Mrs. Spoons worked out...

Oh, and don't forget the secret revealed by Frank J. over at IMAO:

Every time she lies, her thighs get fatter.

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

"If you work hard and play by the rules, you can live a good life."

Anyone who can use both "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" and "Arbeit macht frei" in the service of political gain should not be trusted within one million billion skillion miles of the levers of power. Add socialized medicine and aggravated serial gun-grabbery to the mix, and one gets Lady Macbeth.

Back in the copresidency/HillaryCare days, Hillary explained her opposition to MSAs (Medical Savings Accounts)--wherin you have a account to which you can add up to, say, $3000/year tax-free to be spent as you wish for healthcare, coupled with a high deductable, ($3000 in this case) major medical policy.
So, you pay cash for doctor visits, chiropractors, immunizations, aromatherapy, however you want to spend your MSA money. The practitioners love it--no insurance paperwork for an office visit. Can anyone say market forces?
Hillary, on the other hand doesn't like it. Why? Because people with MSAs can't be trusted not to squander the money. With HER plan, the all-knowing government would spend it wisely.
'Nuff said.

Hi Rachel, love your blog. So why do I "hate" Hillary? Well, I don't hate her but I sure wouldn't vote for her. In the early 1990's she made the remark that she wasn't some little woman standing by her man like Tammy Wynette. Really? Where is she now? Umm, yeah.. standing by her man. I can't quite bring myself to respect someone who repeatedly "stood by her man" while he was diddling other women. I would have kicked his ass to the curb and I guess you, Rachel, would have done the same.

If you had a friend and their husband cheated on them regularly and they kept going back into the relationship, you would lose respect for them. You would think they had no backbone and were weak. She can't stand by her votes but she can stand by her man? How about standing up to her man. It may seem trivial with all the other reasons not to like her but it's mine. I want a president who stands up not just stands by.

She says she stayed with Bill because "no one makes me laugh like Bill". Well, he made me laugh, too. I didn't vote for him, either. (I was registered as a Dem way back in the day). When he said he had "smoked pot but never inhaled" my reaction was.... well, you're either a liar or an idiot. Couldn't figure out how to inhale? Looks like Monica didn't have that problem.

One more thing:

I have a real problem with the fact that Hillary denied, denied and denied again that she intended to run for President. Some people might say 'that's just politics', but it points to a pattern of disingenuity at best and, at worst, a belief that we were stupid enough to take her at her word or didn't care if she was forthright with us.

I also know of a former Secret Service explosives expert, who told of a personal encounter with Hillary (at one of her Senate fundraisers) where she ordered him to help staff clean up. WTF? His response was that he worked for the President and that his job was to keep her safe ... period. She tried to have him fired.

To Fletch:

Did you happen to catch Obama's comment in the debates when someone asked him how he "proves" his "blackness", or how he would if he were president? (ignorant question, BTW...people who claim they're concerned with equality need to stop that BS)

He said something along the lines of, "I think my race is obvious when I try to catch a cab in Manhattan."

Uh, sorry? Did you just accuse cabdrivers of discrimination against you because of your race? Nuh-uh, dude. I don't care if it WAS a joke - that's not appropriate at a debate. If I had any respect for Obama at all (I didn't, by the way, because he's a namby-pamby socialist turd), it was gone as soon as he spoke those words.

Beats me. I'm not really "a conservative", sympathetic as I am to conservatism, and I don't hate Hillary Clinton, though I can't imagine what kind of reptile the Republicans would have to run to get me to vote for her.

I don't like most of her policy prescriptions, but that's not unique to her, and she's probably better in that regard than any of the other Democrat candidates with any chance - and not liking her policy ideas is not hating her.

The visceral hatred I've seen a subset of conservatives have for her? I can't explain it. It might well be irrational. (At very least, it seems likely to be for those who don't have a similar visceral hatred for Democrats as a group defined by policy ideas like hers.)

I think a lot of the "Visceral hatred" conservative types have for the Clintons was down to watching them, again and again, walking away unscathed from scandals that would have sunk any conservative politician. Whitewater alone was quite a bit worse than what they nailed Spiro Agnew for, but the press and public gave the Clintons a pass.

According to Christopher Hitchens' excellent book No One Left To Lie To, Hillary was apparently the one who coordinated the smear campaigns against women who inconvenienced the Great One with accusations of groping or worse. She postures as a feminist and "strong woman" while aiding and abetting someone guilty of sexual harassment of subordinates at the least, and forcible rape (Juanita Broadderick and, according to Hitchens, several others) at the worst.

I think the woman's just this side of a pure sociopath---other people don't even exist for her save as tools she can use. I don't know if Vincent Foster was murdered, but there are a lot of very hinky things about that case. Of course, when it happened, the media chorussed that it had to have been suicide. If it had happened under a Republican, they'd have screamed that the President had personally shot the poor guy.

Bonnie B.:

Watching Obama in this election is liking watching a Jr. High kid try to play "cool" with the High School kids. His "blackness" answer is typical of that type of behavior. He's trying too hard to fit in to the Democratic stereotype, and not trying hard enough to decide what type of person is he, really.

I'm no Hillary fan, but she is organized and experienced (shrewd?). I mention Obama only because I think there may be hope for him, where I think that Hillary is too far gone. That said, I expect Hillary to win the nomination handily.

The next key question, then, is: how do we defeat her in '08?

There is a particular kind of lying that really irritates me - and both she and her husband are guilty of it. It's the kind of lying where you invent a story out of thin air to win over your audience - so that the audience adopts the mistaken belief that you have a pre-existing chummy relationship. This is how a trap works...

I allude to the story when Hillary was in New Zealand and during a speech to her Kiwi audience she proclaimed that her parents were big fans of Sir Edmund Hillary, who was the first climber to reach the summit of Everest. Many of the dolts in the audience were flattered, but some were troubled...

Some fact checking was later done, which showed that Edmund Hillary was not world famous until AFTER she was born. The likelihood that her parents named her after him was nil.

I believe Bill Clinton did much the same - when speaking to, (if memory serves) a largely black southern baptist audience he spoke of how troubled he felt, when as a youth he heard of church burnings in Arkansas. Only there were no church burnings in Arkansas during his youth. The audience was heartened by his words and I guess they felt that he was truly empathetic. But really he was just simply pathetic.

Lying...smiling...trap set. Not a fan of that.