I agree with you whole-heartedly, Rachel. I've seen too many people whose lives have literally been quite adversely affected, if not outright ruined by their children. Try having a 41-year old alcoholic son you enable b/c you love him too much. If I were my Dad I'd have done myself in a long time ago.

I think another key is not having too many children. Why not just stick with just one? I have seen too many marriages go off the deep end once they have the second kid. And too often it's a way for the wife to either (1) avoid going back to work, or (2) excuse herself from having sex with her husband ever again. Too many women are like that, and they tend to choose men are too weak to object. Count me out.

And the bit about having kids so you have someone to take care of you when you are old? )This was my sister-in-law's stated reason, although in her defense I now know her to truly enjoy being a parent ... one of the few I know who do.) How utterly narcissistic!

I'm all for having kids, and plenty of them... but having seen what you subject poor Sunny and Digger to on a regular basis, I have to agree with your decision... ;-)

Hi Rachel,

Your post reminds me of Mark Steyn's writings, where he says the West is in terminal decline and the Islamists are the only ones having babies - I'd rather have more Rachels ;-)

I do have a coupla kids, and don't regret it, for the record - the one redeeming feature of my ill-spent life :-)

If I could do it again I would have kids but would stipulate that I would be able to pick them. I would have #1 and #3. #2 is an all-around bitch with a capital B.

She's my child, and I love her, but I really don't like her too much. She treats everyone like crap. She has threatened to beat me up, taken money I know I'll never see again, and generally makes me miserable whenever I'm around her. The crowing touch was when I succumbed to a fit of insanity and gave her an old Singer pedal sewing machine that had been in the family for 6 generations. It wasn't worth anything but sentimental and family value. I found it behind her garbage can about a month later, utterly ruined.

Thanks for the vent.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

They all said it was the loss of freedom and the huge expense that they regretted the most.

Well, as you said, YMMV. My wife, mother, sister, niece and several female friends have all answered an emphatic yes to that particular question. Yes, it is hard work and expensive. My wife had a great, well-paying career that has been curtailed since we've had children. The loss of income slowed down our retirement plans, but the children provide us with endless joy. Endless headaches, too, but I will admit to not being a great bargain all of the time.

That said, people should think long and hard about having children. If your marriage is struggling, the added stress won't make things better. And if you think that your life won't change at all, you're dead wrong. I was at a concert recently at 10:00 p.m. where I saw a woman with a two year old child. While I congratulate her on not being stupid enough to leave her kid at home alone, I felt like smacking her across the face a few times. "But I would have missed the concert!", she'd exclaim. My reply would be that you're a parent now. It's not all about you. And that part is the hardest to grasp and accept.

i was single until the age of 37 and childless until I turned 39. I was pretty darned happy because I could go anywhere, anytime, and do any damned thing that I wanted to. That is no longer the case. My wife and I lost quite a bit of our freedom, but we both feel that what we've gained is so much greater. Again, just our opinion. I appreciate your honesty in this matter. I wish more people would examine whether or not they really want children before having them.

My wife and I are cranking out kids as fast as we can to make up for people like you.

How the hell else are we going to prevent the liberals from taking over?

Make that crowning. Sorry.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

If my ex girlfriend could have explained it as well as you did, we may not have broken up over it.

She could only offer : "I don't know why" .. "It's just how I feel" ..etc.

That annoyed me to no end. It's an important decision either way you go and you should have solid reasons for whichever you decide.
Needless to say, it's something that brooks no compromise, (though I did say we could adopt if it was the act of having a child she had an aversion to ... shrugged shoulders was my answer).

Honestly, these days I'm not as certain I do want to have kids. And damn, your post actually shook things up a bit in my head. It appears that I really need sit down and reevaluate what I want and why.

Rach,
You have kids if you want to, and don't have them if you don't want to. And it's nobody's business but your own. But since you wanted us to know what a materialistic, money grubbing, anti-social, 'fraidy cat you are, there's still nothing wrong with that. Having kids is not logical so not having them doesn't need the logic of economics or anything else to justify it.

I have a hard enough time cleaning out the cat box every few days. If I had to change diapers several times a day for a few years, I would probably end up hiring an English nanny and giving her the keys to the paint shaker.

Once you have kids, if you ever do, you'll see the complete folly of your statements.

With that said, there ought to be classes you have to take and pass before people can have kids. it should also be mandatory to wait until you aren't a child also, around 30 I'd say.

Ahh, but you will never have the joy of seeing one of your sons graduate from Parris Island and pin the Marine Anchor and Globe on his cap.

I think children do a tad bit more for their parents than merely care for/or abandon them in their old age. My dad's had some really rough years -and probably wouldn't have lived if it weren't for me (I was the only one who came forward to donate a kidney.)

You can pay someone to "care" for you physically, but that's not really the same.

Honestly, I'm fine with people deciding not to have children. The money argument doesn't sway me, though. Matter of fact, I see too many people holding off having (much wanted) children until they have "enough" money- and then the eggs are old and things just don't work out.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get busy living my hedonistic self-indulgent child-free lifestyle.

Woo hoo!

Thanks, Rachel. Sometimes I feel like less of an adult because of the absent hubby or offspring, so I enjoy hearing from other women who've chosen not to reproduce. (The possibility remains but never has been a priority.)

Elizabeth, except for the sewing machine story, you sound EXACTLY like my mother.

(I'm #3, by the way)

N. O'Brain, that reminds me of my favorite joke:

Question: Why does the U.S. Navy carry Marines on their ships?

Answer: Because sheep would be waaaay too obvious!

LoL...All in good fun. Semper Fi, Dude.

I'll loan you one of mine when you get old;)

Bonnie: It doesn't surprise me. And I realize that middle children feel kind of left out, but #2 was a black hole of need with no event horizon. The more she got, the more she wanted. It got to the point that I felt that I was neglecting her sisters to "build her self esteem," so I stopped. Which really started the tidal wave of whining.

Now, at 31 (yes, 31) years of age, she STILL tries her manipulation on people. God help her poor husband (#2 already, she ran off on #1) and children.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

Rachel,
While I can fully understand your point of view, and even to some degree agree with a lot of what you have to say, you can no more attach a justifiable "expense" to the desire to love and have a child, than you can to loving and having a dog.

I say this because based on my experience of having done both, and it has been my experience that raising one child is not all that much different than raising two dogs, nor any less prohibitive in terms of your personal freedom. Assuming you are a good pet owner(which I am sure you are despite the evil "dressing up" phase you are going through now-somethine a lot of baby mommys do too I might add), you still have to feed them, bathe them, in general care for them, educate them, and make sure they recieve medical attention when needed. Your dogs are 100% dependent on you for the entire length of their existance, whereas thankfully a child eventually reaches a point where they can more or less fend for themselves. Not to mention, I would much rather spend 4 years of diaper changing than a lifetime of walkng and poop scooping. I mean at least with a diaper I know where the poo is and there is no chance I am going to accidently step in it and track it around my house unknowingly.

I have two sons, it was my ideal to have them when I was on the younger side so I could still relate to them and enjoy their company as we all grew older. More or less, so far so good, albeit they are in the teen years now so we don't always see so eye to eye about stuff like we once did. Would I do it again, if given the chance? Not really sure on that, I would like to say I would, but would feel much better answering that question in another 10 years after I had a better look at what these spawn of my loins have matured into once they are out and about and on their own.

I have always said that the only good thing that ever comes out of a divorce is the ability to remain being a good, active parent in your kids lives, but still have every other weekend off to pursue your own interests, which I think for some (myself included) makes the time you do spend together more meaningful, important, and appreciated. Try doing that with your pooches.

Have fun ;)!

PS: Not to mention that in the case of your dogs you unfortunately have to go through the pain and heartbreak of watching them eventually die. Something no parent should ever have to do, and thankfully most never have to experience.

"a black hole of need with no event horizon" - Elizabeth

Excellent phrase.

I'm all about leaving people's decisions about their personal lives to themselves.

I have, however, had the opposite experience to you on the question of whether the people I knew would have children again if given the chance to do it over. Even when their children were totally destroying their house, digging up their flowers, or had just been pulled in for driving down the road with 4 of their buddies "street skiing" (tying a rope on a car, then "skiing" down the street behind it on a skateboard or something), they would say that they wouldn't NOT have had children for anything in the world.

Even I, who have two of the most unlike-their-parent children in the world (and even though I offer to sell them frequently, while they are listening), would not give them up. I was a meek, quiet, sensitive, nerdy little boy when I was a child. My boys may not be the most rowdy and hardheaded children in the world, but they are certainly far more than I expected to come from ME (Well, I was hardheaded, but quietly). I literally don't have any idea what to do with them half the time. Then, once in a while, they come along and show me their drawing, or something they just built, or whatever, and just knowing that my opinion matters to them, no matter how much we may fight, makes up for it all.

Brian Thorn, are you KIDDING? Two dogs is just as freedom-limiting as one child?

You are aware of the fact that I can leave my dogs at home alone. Can't do that with kids.

I spend maybe a few hundred bucks a year on food for my two very big dogs. How much does it cost to feed a child?

I can even give my dogs away if I need to, such as if I get disabled and can't walk them anymore. Can you give a kid away if it becomes too big a burden?

And yeah, dogs depend on your their whole lives whereas a kid eventually leaves, but hellooo?? The average life span of a dog is about 12 years, for one thing. Plus, what does it really take to care for a dog? Really. You said, "you still have to feed them, bathe them, in general care for them, educate them, and make sure they recieve medical attention when needed."

Yes, I do. Feeding them involves dumping the same food in a bowl twice a day. Bathing them occurs maybe four times a year, not every day like a kid. Educate them? Yeah, a little training, but it's not like I have to drive them to school every day for 12 years and THEN pay for college. Medical care? You really cannot compare the medical expenses of a dog with that of a child. I'm sorry. You just can't.

Not to mention, I don't have to take them with me on vacation, I don't have to clothe them, I don't have to furnish rooms for them, I don't have to buy health insurance for them, I don't have to buy them a car, I don't have to teach them how to talk, I don't have to pay them an allowance, and most of all, I don't have the enormous EMOTIONAL burden of constant worry over them.

Anyway. I think some of you misunderstand my stance on this and don't give me enough credit for being smart enough to figure out that, yes of course, there are emotional payoffs to having kids. Would I love to have a son who joined the Marines and won a medal? FUCK YES. I would love that very much. But that's about a million times less likely than having a son who becomes an alcoholic or a drug user or a criminal, no matter how you parent them. So I'm just playing the odds. Being objective. That is really how I look at it.

But I'm not cold. I know how much parents love their children and how wonderful it must be to have the unconditional love of a little baby. I KNOW. I helped take care of my nephew until he was 2, and I felt that emotion fully. I would have died for that kid and even today, with him being 19 and doing all kinds of bad things that I don't like, I love him with my entire soul. And it feels good to love him like that. I get it, I truly do.

But I get plenty of joy out of the relationships I already have. I'm fully cognizant of what I'm "missing out on" by not having kids. But there is nothing wrong with saying that the converse is true: if you have kids, YOU are missing out on a lot of stuff, too.

I REALLY REALLY didn't want those of you with kids to take this post in the wrong way. I know you love your kids and they fulfill you in ways I will never understand. I'm okay with that. I get fulfilled in other ways. I'm not materialistic or selfish, either. I just love my life the way it is and I am happy with the love and affection I already get from my friends and family. I don't need to bring another human into the world to truly know satisfaction or joy.

As I have said previously, my wife and I have a statistically significant sample size of children. For years we have been subjected to the wonderfully unique jokes of "You know they now know what causes kids!" and "Don't they have cable TV where you live?" and "Still trying for that girl, eh?" (we had 16-years'-worth of boys before we ever had a girl)

Ha. ha. ha.

But we wanted kids. We planned them, we spaced them out, we even (gasp!) budgeted for them. We find the rewarding moments far outweigh the costs (both monetary and psychological). That was our choice; other people make other choices.

Because we have a large family we have learned never to judge someone's decisions about family size. One kid? Great! None? Super! Ten? If that's your goal, you care for them and love them, then that's great too.

By all means, don't have children, Rachel--surely not feeling the way that you do about the prospects and the cost/benefit relationship.

p.s. some of the better quips we've heard:
"Excuse me, but is this a Scout Troop?" (we had a large number of boys, with no girls, for a long time). [My answer, "Why yes, Ma'am, it is.]
"Porn is cheaper you know."
"All these kids from one wife?" [Yes. She's a saint.]

I don't have to clothe them," - Rachel

And yet.....

you do. ;P

but guess what I will have? PILES OF MONEY. With which I can pay someone to change my diapers

That assumes that not everyone took the advice in your survey to not reproduce, and assumes that there are actually people around younger than you who have the "need" to take such a demeaning job. If 4 out of 10 people reproduce, do you seriously think that their children will even want to wipe your butt. There will be such a shortage of workers that they can call their own tune.

More likely the scenario is that the young people will decide that the old people who were so self centered in their youth, probably don't deserve to live and drain resources from the young productive citizens. Soylent Green...anyone?

I don't need to bring another human into the world to truly know satisfaction or joy.

Excellent point.

Yes Dust Bunny, this planet is in certain danger of running out of people.

As far as other people wiping your butt...do people pick up your garbage or do you launch it directly into the sun from your back yard?

If there's a job, there's an employee.

LMAO! WOW! Deep breath Rachel. I was making casual comparsions not precise financial commentary. No need to flip out, but boy did it make me chuckle nonetheless imagining you having a verbal hissy.

Okay granted, so you wash your dog less than some, and perhaps more than most, and you feed them the cheap stuff (I only say that because my Lab used to cost on average about 1500+ a year to feed him the dry stuff, and until my boys grew up into teenaged locusts they didn't cost all that much more to keep in food). Hell as infants my boys cost maybe $15 combined a week to feed. Jars of Gerber cost less than a can of dog or cat food, and the breast milk was free. As a family unit of 5 our weekly grocery bills for the 5 of us when we all lived together (dog included) rarely was over $185.00 a week, not including if we went out to dinner which we did from time to time.

Yes you can leave your dogs alone. For how long? At this stage in the game I can leave my boys for a weekend, several days if need be and not require a kennel or house sitter in order to do so. Do you see my point? You have had your dogs for how long? Can you leave them completely unattended for days on end? Eventually I can leave my boys for weeks at a time if the need arises. A big difference isn't it? Even when they were babies it was very possible to go on vacation just my wife and I without the kids. Unlike kennels which can cost a decent chunk of change, grandparents seem to delight in having their grandkids around for a week or two, although one should never overly take advantage of this perk, as some parents seem inclined to do.

And yes as sickening and as heart wrenching as it might seem, if I was to become too infirm to care for my children properly, giving them up to someone who can, would in fact be the loving responsible thing for a parent to do. You hear stories of parents who are forced to do that very thing all the time. Yes dogs only live on average about 12-15 years but a true dog lover is rarely without a dog, so you are starting the entire process all over again once you bring another one into the house. With kids once you are past the "house breaking" stage it just gets easier from there on out, with the possible exception of the emotional isses, but even dogs can have those problems.

I think you misunderstood my point. If you don't wish to have children, that is by all means your right and no matter what anyone says to the contrary that is a perfectly acceptable way to be, and I both support and respect your feelings in that regards. I would never try to convince you or anyone else to feel diffferently.

That being said though, rationally speaking, I don't think you can accurately reflect the cost to benefit ratios of having kids versus not having kids via some set of financial numbers played out on a spreadsheet. Certain variables do not, nor can ever have hard numbers applied to them because they are emotion based and it is rather difficult to put a accurate pricetag on that.

Have a baby don't have a baby, they are both very viable, very respectable, and very different yet no less rewarding nor financially restrictive ways to live, depending on how you go about it. Leastwise that is how I see it. So in short, NO I wasn't kidding.

Have fun ;)!

When my husband and I married, I sort of acquired a set of friends through him who were all having babies. It seems as though parenthood kills brain cells off more quickly than alcohol does. This "cult of the child" mentality was in full swing, as I suspect that it still is today.

I've also witnessed marriages that crashed for reasons either directly or indirectly attributable to having had children. The kids brought out those latent-but-not-politically-correct notions about mothers being home with the kids, basic difference in values between the husband and wife, or childbirth brought on debilitating depression in the woman. My sister-in-law stated that her first marriage may have survived if they had not had their second child.

Thank goodness we can make a decision not to have children. I may not have been a really lousy mother, but I would not have been a happy one, either.

And don't get me started on these moronic teenage girls having babies who have NO business doing so.

Rachel -- My Mom has framed pictures of our dog up on her walls and refers publicly to our dog as her grand-dog. She's not worried about who is going to wipe her butt. She's more worried about when her grand-dog can come visit and swim in her pond. She knew I wouldn't have kids since I announced my utter distaste for the idea as a teenager. I agree with every word you've ever uttered on this topic, BTW.

I was being facetious, sort of, about the Soylent Green.

"If there's a job, there's an employee"

Umm no. The law of supply and demand rules. If there are too many jobs (old people in long term care who need their butts wiped) and not enough people to fill the jobs because there are less people(for whatever reason) then the jobs that are going to be filled are those that are most attractive and pay the best. I think butt wiping will be lower on the list of desirable occupations.

Of course, middle and upper class white Americans who have selectively bred themselves into minority status, can always import people from third world countries to do the dirty work for lower wages. Isn't that what we are doing now, anyway.

Rachael and anyone else is perfectly within their rights to decide if, when and how many children to have or not to have. I'm not making value judgement at all. I only have one child myself. That was plenty for me.

I'm merely pointing out the long term social ramifications of deciding not to reproduce.

Brian: "The cheap stuff"? I don't know about where you live, but here, a 40-pound bag of Science Diet costs $30. My dogs eat one bag every few weeks. That comes to about $700 a year. Science Diet is not "cheap stuff". Ok I'm done. I think you're wrong and that's okay. :) I'm not even going to take you off my blogroll for being all up on my ass lately. So there.

Dust Bunny - so it's "self centered" to decide not to have children? Really? Is that the stance you want to take, are you sure? Because most people with kids had them out of some altruistic motive, right? Because THEY were decidedly un-self-centered, eh?

Dogette - preach it sister! Have I ever told you how much I love reading your stories on your blog about Her Dogliness? You do it better than me.

Thanks, Rach, for speaking out for all women whose ultimate goal doesn't happen to be procreating. At 38, my family has *finally* stopped asking me "when are YOU going to have a child?" (spoken by the same relatives who have, over the years, asked me when I'm going to get my single-ass married).

I've never felt that maternal "urge" to procreate. In my twenties, my mother told me, "Oh, you'll change your mind." Sorry Mom, but I still haven't.

I adore my niece and nephews. I find it to be even more fun than being their parent - I'm the cool aunt who takes them fun places, has a great time when we're together, gives them gifts (birthday or not), then *poof*! I go home. They worship me, I have fun with them, and my sisters have to do the dirty work. Muahahaha!

Seriously, though, I'm sick (and tired) of the attitude that there's something WRONG with women who don't, and don't want to, procreate. Is that all we are worth?

Plus, we have waaaayyyy too many people on earth as it is. My lack of offspring is not going to upset the propagation of the species one iota.

Perhaps I'll change my mind one day (and, as my dad so helpfully likes to point out, I don't have many years left to make such a decision). But the only way I'm going to embark on such an endeavor is with a solid man, perhaps a husband, alongside me. And I stopped looking for that some time ago.

Too bad for the rest of us that most of the people in the world procreating are cretins with demonspawn.

Oh, and I dress my dog up too.

Dust Bunny - so it's "self centered" to decide not to have children? Really? Is that the stance you want to take, are you sure? Because most people with kids had them out of some altruistic motive, right? Because THEY were decidedly un-self-centered, eh?

Hmmm... how many parents willingly admit that selfish motives prompt reproduction?

Wow...intense. I'm very torn because all my life I've dreamed about having a family, which includes kids.

Hubby and I have talked about it and we both say we want them...but 5 years of marriage and still nothing. Except three wonderful dogs.

At first we knew we wanted to wait because as my husband said "I'm too selfish to have kids." LOL And he was right...we wanted to be able to do whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted. And he made the argument of not enough money which I never bought into. We would've been fine even five years ago with a kid.

And now... ??? I dunno. My mom calls the dogs her grand-doggies and has photos up at work of them. :) She comes over to visit them even.

I love having the time to create jewelry. I can stay up on Friday night until 1 a.m. if I want ... watching TV and playing with metal and fire. And no one bugs me. I can sleep in Saturday morning and no one wakes me up. So maybe I'm still too selfish for a kid.

But when my coworkers bring their kids in I do feel that longing. I'm definitely torn. And I definitely am NOT looking forward to childbirth. And I am just afraid that my child would turn out to be a liberal!!! ROFL

Although, Rachel, I was shocked that your polling turned out so negatively. Every single person that I've ever spoken with has always said that the pain is worth it. Maybe they're lying. Scary thought!

"so it's "self centered" to decide not to have children? Really? Is that the stance you want to take, are you sure?"

Not at all. It doesn't matter to me. Lots of people have no kids for lots of reasons; including my brother and sister. I never asked why...its none of my business. It doesn't make them more or less selfish than people who have a bunch of kids more or less altruistic. I myself am not a very maternal person and don't particularly like to be around other people's kids. I was more about the economics** of having each generation becoming smaller than the last.

I'm saying what many young people(20's)that I know ALREADY think about the baby boomer generation (that they are a bunch of self absorbed old farts) and the burdens of paying for entitlement that they see coming their way for the rest of their working lives in the form of taxes to support all the old people in retirement. There used to be 18 workers for every retiree, now there are 3 working people paying for SS and SSI for each retiree. In the future there will be even less, more like a one to one ratio. People used to die before they collected much of SS. Now we can live a much longer time. Not so sure that's a good thing. Quantity vs quality of life.

The Soylent Green solution might become more attractive.

** I'm also a financial advisor and I agree with Rupert on the opportunity cost of capital, estimated return and future value..adjusted for inflation of course. I think the $17,000 per child might be a bit on the high side but it would depend on where in the country you live and which of the cost assumptions you believe are actual costs or are artifically created to inflate the base cost. Bored yet. :-)

I am one of those who doesn't want kids either...never have. People throughout my life have told me that I'll change my mind. Nope, that's not going to happen.

And the reasons are what you pointed out. It costs way too much money and I'd rather keep that money and the loss of freedom. Now, I do not word it quite that eloquently, I come right out, blunt and brutal, I'm too damn selfish to have kids. I don't WANT to give up my freedom, my sleeping time, my quiet time, my social life and my urge to pick up and go whenever I want. And I don't WANT to spend my money on a kid. I want to spend what money I make on myself and MY future.

I've never been dishonest about it...I've always stated that I'm far too selfish. That doesn't make me wrong. Frankly, I think there are a lot of very selfish people having kids...THAT is wrong.

(Lest that be read incorrectly: I do not say that all people who have kids are selfish, I say that those who are selfish should not have kids.)

What I wish for is to have people stop asking me why I don't have any and then giving me the third degree when I state, plainly, why I do not want them as if they are going to convince me to change my mind. Why on EARTH would anyone WANT to change my mind?

Shoot! I forgot to have kids!!

Feck it ! So did I ! A few years ago I went on holiday with my flatmates from university. Of the four of us (two men, two women) only one of the blokes had children - he has four. We beleived he was on a personal crusade to make up for his friends lack of procreation. We asked him why he would recommend having children. He thought for a long time and then said, 'Cause they make you laugh.' He paused, then added, 'But I can't wait to get back to the office on a Monday.' We weren't convinced. Don't get me wrong, I like small people, I really do - well the nice ones - I think it should be legal to throttle the bad ones - or the bad one's parents. However, some of us aren't kept awake by the sound of our biological clocks ticking. Its just the way we're made. By the way, the flat reunion we had? It was in Sardinia - near Italy. Three of us could make it cause we didn't have kids and my mate with kids could because he had an incredibly understanding wife and an army of nannies.

Rachel, dear, how big a check? Think you could convince your sibs to do the same thing? I'll just send you all an invoice for 35-40 years of services rendered - that should cover it. Spawn of Rachel is right! Whhooooeeee, what a relief that won't be happening.

No one needs to justify their desire for children, or the lack of that desire, to anyone else... however, if you're going to marry someone, it's really helpful if that person has the same desire (or lack of it) as you do.

The marriage of one couple I knew from high school disintegrated because of such a conflict. He wanted kids, she didn't... and eventually, that difference was one of the things that imploded their marriage. That woman was adamant, from at least the age of 16, that she didn't want any kids. And she was highly pissed that no doctor she asked was willing to tie off her tubes while she was that young.

Because sometimes people's desires DO change. Sometimes they DO meet the precise person who does change their mind about having kids.

I never had kids, never really wanted to. But at the ripe old age of 37, I started experiencing "baby hunger." I started feeling like I wanted one. I started dreaming about pregnancy and childbirth. And no one was more surprised than I was.

I did have a sort-of longing for several years. But I didn't end up with a husband in time for children to happen.

Those feelings of longing faded. And now, five days away from my 54th birthday, I can honestly say that I'm glad I didn't have children.

Both of my sisters started out wanting several children, but each ended up with one kid.

I saw how downright horrible my parents' marriage was, and how trapped my mother felt with several children but no way of taking care of them all by herself, and I swore up and down that I'd never be in her shoes.

I was scared shitless of being dependent on a man who might turn out to be a mean bastard, like my father, someone who enjoyed hurting the people around him, especially women.

I have met men whose kids I might have liked to have, had things worked out. But I'm middle-aged and childless, and I'm glad. I do have a live-in partner. But I honestly prefer my cats to most other members of my species.

"Rachel, dear, how big a check? Think you could convince your sibs to do the same thing? I'll just send you all an invoice for 35-40 years of services rendered - that should cover it. Spawn of Rachel is right! Whhooooeeee, what a relief that won't be happening."

Posted by Rachel's Mom

ROFLMAO!

I don't have children. I just haven't found the right person yet ... to perform the vasectomy. Childfree and content with that part of my life.

First off let me state for the record I am a 42 year old male no wife no kids and do enjoy my personal and financial freedom because of that.

However I am a nobody, You are the world renowned Rachel Lucas!
Who will step in to take your place when you're too old and crotchety to blog anymore?
Where will the world turn when the need for photos of dogs in bikinis arises?

And just think if you had kids they would be the coolest ones in town!

Your kid: "Hi I'm the Spawn of Rachel"
Other kid: "Wow Rachel Lucas the World Renowned Blogger is your mom? She says asshat and everything, my mom just bakes cookies."

The world NEEDS your children please don't let us down.

Personally I want kids,not because I like them (because truthfully I can't stand kids)but I'd like to get to a point in my marriage(when I get married) that my husband(future)and I love each other so much that we decide to create another life..ahem(and hopefully I'll like my kids alot better than all the others I've met heh)

...but then again there's childbirth..so it's a toss-up.

But I DO love hearing you talk about and explain why you don't like kids:) it makes my day.

I find this thread fascinating. Rachel quantifying her reasons to not have children has made me try to quantify why I did have them. Can't do it.

Let me ask you this Rachel - if you were already financially independent (that is, never had to work again), would you consider having children? I realize that you cite other factors beyond financial, but the title of the post would indicate that it's mostly a financial matter.

So now that people aren't reading this thread any more, I'm actually going to state an opinion. :-)

Rachel, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with every point you've made in this entry and this thread. I have a nephew that I love, and I think he's just the best little kid ever. I find joy in teaching him, playing with him, and watching him grow (he's 20 months old). BUT I know that I'm not interested in a child of my own, for several reasons, not the least of which is that cleaning up poop is not my idea of a good time (don't tell me "it's different when it's your child", folks - I've heard that a million times, and regardless of whether it's true or not, I'm not going to have a kid JUST to find that out, thanks). Also, I kind of LIKE not having to worry about finding a babysitter if I want to go somewhere. I like my freedom. And while comparing a child to a ball-and-chain isn't going to win me any friends, I will say that it takes a special kind of person to be that devoted to something for 18+ years, and I'm just not that person. I'll probably never get married, either.

Some of us aren't made for that sort of thing, but there are plenty of people who are, so it's not THAT big of a deal if a few of us just aren't interested.

Thank you, Alexander.

I believe that it's not a matter of selfishness or not, it's a matter of inclination. For myself, I applaud these people; if they were forced to have children, both they and the children themselves would be absolutely miserable.

And having been an unwanted child (and literally told to my face "I didn't want you and wish I had never had you" [at the grand age of 7]), that's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper