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Vista, I want to break-a your face-a.

I got a new desktop computer for my home office, and the machine itself (Dell) is fantastic. But for the love of all crap, why can't Microsoft make an operating system that WORKS BETTER THAN THE LAST ONE. I've been using XP for a few years and I like it just fine; frankly, there's nothing I would change about it but I've been told that's unusual. It always was very stable for me.

So this new machine has Vista, against which I have issued my own personal temporary fatwa. But I've been around the block a few times with new OS's and I know that once I figure out how it works, I'll like it. Just can't figure out how to figure it out. Rupert is being crushed under the load of his own work and MBA stuff so I don't want to commandeer his brains and make him get in there and figure it out for me, but I have no such hesitation when it comes to demanding YOUR help. You're obviously bored or you would not be reading this now.

My first big issue is the layout of the Explorer window thingy. You know, where all your files and file trees are. In XP, there's a button on the top task bar called "Folders". You can toggle that to switch from seeing either your file tree in the left pane below or File and Folder Tasks. When you've got a folder highlighted, it gives you options like "Make New Folder" etc. When you have a file highlighted, it switches to options like "Rename File" etc.

So far as I can tell, that whole function is gone with Vista. I spent hours yesterday investigating every single menu in the Explorer window to find how to display File and Folder Tasks, and I failed. Which makes me want to commit felony assault. It looks like I'll have to actually right-click on folders and files to rename them. This alone will add at least 50 mouse clicks to my work day because I do a lot of that kind of thing. I cannot accept MORE clicks into my life.

Does anyone know what the deal is with this problem? Am I missing something obvious? It is well established that I'm not too bright, so if you can advise, please keep it at a level I can understand. I'm thinking 3rd grade here.

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Comments (43)

WildPointer [TypeKey Profile Page]:

If you have the file selected already then just hit the Menu key. It is on your keyboard between the Windows key and the CTRL below the right hand shift key. That will bring up the menu you seek. Also, when in the Documents folder there is an 'Organize' button at the top that seems to have the functions you desire.

Was that all? That was easy.

You might also go to the 'Control Panel' (I use the Classic view) and select 'Folder Options', then select the View Tab. This will display a list of options; the second one is 'Always Show Menus'... it sounds like you may also want to turn that on.

Amanda [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I have already promised a jihad in my office if they make us switch to Vista. I know it's evitable, but I like living in denial.

What is it with people who Blog in Vista and you get all those stupid, double-underlined names that spark a pop-up Vista Search? Those are beyond annoying, and can be a real deal-breaker when it comes to re-visiting that blog or website.

Jacob [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Also of note, if you have a file or directory highlighted, F2 is "rename". I know learning keyboard shortcuts is lame, but for something I do often, I like em.

chuckR [TypeKey Profile Page]:

The solution to the problem is to take advantage of Dell's return policy and replace your computer with pretty much the same machine with XP or XP Pro installed instead. I use engineering software that doesn't run on Vista and won't until there is a Service Pack fix. I will use XP64 Pro until I can't get it any more.

*grunt*

Mongo no like compootor.

Compootor make funny sounds, make Mongo angry.

Angry!

ANGRY!

RAWR!!!

MONGO SMASH COMPOOTOR!!!

I'm in the market for a new fairly high-end laptop (high-end for me, that is; the most I've ever paid for a new one is $1200 and I'm looking at spending around $2K this time), and I guarandamntee that it won't come with Vista on it.

Everybody bags on Vista, but I have it on my Toshiba, and it works great. Of course, there are two caveats:

My last computer ran on Windows Me, which was complete crap on a stick, so *anything* is an upgrade.

And when I got my new computer, I had a computer genius friend disable all of the annoying Vista doo-dads and installed all kinds of cool extensions and what-not.

So I've got no beef with Vista, except for the fact that using my iPod with it is a royal PITA, and the lack of good software still unavailable.

Otherwise, I've embraced the inevitable.

ErikZ [TypeKey Profile Page]:

This isn't college anymore, you can't get guys to come over and fix your computer by batting your eyelashes.

(Who the hell came up with that phrase anyway?)

Unless we've all been downgraded to "Minions" you need to offer something in return. :)

Parker [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Actually, Vista uses ideas from:

Windows CE,

Windows ME,

and Windows NT.

They were getting ready to release it as:

Windows CEMENT - 'We made it really hard!'

This is exactly why, when forced to get a new PC, I'm going to make every effort to stay with XP-Home. There's a lot to be said for "If it ain't broke, don't screw with it."

BarSinister [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Microsoft field tests new software on its customers. Not on me they dont. When I had a client build a new computer in March of this year, I had XPpro installed. I might look at Vista in a few years, when MSFT has worked most of the bugs out.

Vonski [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I refuse to be used as a late night boot-up call just because Rupert is busy :( I have feelings too. :oP

Tully [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Any Microsoft OS should be considered a buggy beta version until it's been in use at least two years. Period.

tedders [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I know I'll get alot of flak for this. Dump Windows. Get a Mac. I got my first one in 1984 and I've never looked back. They cost a tad more but the are hands down better machines and software. I never have my machines freeze up. I never have to worry about a virus doing me any harm. More stable, easier to use, what more could you want? In the 23+ years I've used them I've never had a hardware problem.

You can still get XP Pro on a system? I'd jump ship to a Mac before I got Vista.

Mark [TypeKey Profile Page]:

If you are stuck with Vista, go buy something like the Sybex Vista publication. I am running XP Pro and have a feeling Vista is going to be another Windows ME.

derrell [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Well I know I will be booed from every side and I also realize that you most likely have windows specific software for the work that you do, but my suggestion would be along the same lines as tedders. Dump windows, Macs are nice but you could also consider using some flavor of linux. I haven't used windows for my day to day stuff since about 2001 or 2002. Very rarely do I run into something that I can't do. I also don't worry about the virus thing and my current uptime without having to reboot the machine is 77 days and 18 hours. UPS's are great. That includes installing and uninstalling all sorts of software, and its just happy as a hog in shit. No crashes, freeze ups or other weird crap.

It is also possible to install linux along side windows so you can always fall back to what you are comfortable with while you are getting used to it. Oh and one other thing the OS is free as is most of the software. I haven't purchased a single piece of software for a few years now. I do however donate money to the projects whose software I use on a regular basis.

Alright let the rotten tomatoes fly.

The next best thing would be ChuckR's suggestion. Send the thing back to dell and tell them you want XP on the next one. You make your living with your computer you don't need to fight thing to make it work like you want.

Macs are full of crap. They don't cost a "tad" more, they cost a crapton more...and that doesn't even count the horrendous costs of repair due to no independent service facilities (if you're so inclined) or the lack ability to upgrade or repair parts yourself. Macs suck. Everyone should just realize that and get over it. (PS The "no viruses for Macs" thing is a total lie).

Vista is also a whole lot nicer than XP, and its more than visual. It controls your computer's peripherals so much better, leading to power and time saving shut down of components not in use. It also has a super-duper upgraded task manager which actually analyzes your RAM usage patterns to "set aside" memory if you access programs at certain times, making these programs open faster.

It also has a plethora of lovely, lovely little features -- like tracking every single hangup, crash, or freeze, so you can know just who screwed up, when, and why. Or integrated search between all your documents and programs on the START MENU (genius). XML standardization on Office 2007 (which isn't Vista but is related) is absolute love. The new explorer is a whole lot more useful than the old one, once you learn how to use it. And the whole idea of scaling everything from fonts to icons to how stuff is displayed by CTRL+mouse wheel is brilliant.

Not to mention the fact that it looks a whole lot sexier (and has vector based graphics - glee!).

I hate the Vista bashing because for the first time since Windows 95 Microsoft has come out with a great, stable product, and everyone else can't quit complaining about it.

PatHMV [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I've gotta go with k2aggie. I've been running Vista Business on a new Dell laptop for a week and a half now, and I've been very pleased with it. The past 2 days, I've been having severe network difficulties of a sort which would have also occurred in XP, but which would have required multiple reboots to fix. In Vista, I can disable and enable major network components without rebooting the whole system.

It undoubtedly needs some tweaking, and I wish it would have a few more options to return to the "classic" interface, but so far I'm quite pleased with it.

tedders [TypeKey Profile Page]:

k2aggie07 is really Bill Gates! Jeesh, aggie what crawled up your butt? My bets are you've had no experience with a Mac. My current 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo can run circles around your machine, nana boo boo. Grow up fer chrissakes.

23+ years (not a week and a half) and never a single hardware failure, how many wintel users can say that. Never had a virus attack, never. Don't have to defrag the hard drive. Don't have to reboot because it never freezes up. The iMac I'm using right now cost under $1,500.00, is that too expensive for you? Apples OSX is light years ahead of Windows, every generation has beaten the corresponding Windows system in speed and stability. Don't let your emotions get the best of your decision making, I expect more from a real 12th man Aggie. If you've never tried one you may want to, soon Apples OSX will work on your machines too! I'm not going to get into a slug fest with you but you are out of your mind if you believe what you wrote. I own both platforms, I know which is better. Macs cost more because they are in fact better more stable machines. They use more expensive components with tougher specifications to pass. You get what you pay for.

WildPointer [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I like my Vista. I have it on three machines and it really is much easier to do most things then with XP. Different ways, but easier.

I haev enjoyed it very much. I am not annoyed by the requests for permission to do one thing or another. I appreciate the way this helps me keep my system clean from infestations.

Cosmo [TypeKey Profile Page]:

If you really like Vista...you'll LOVE Office 2007. That and cutting.

chuckR [TypeKey Profile Page]:

The problem with suggesting that someone dump Windows and get a Mac is that specific software may not run on MAC OS. My software for example. I don't know if Rachel uses special transcription software, but 'doesn't run' sure would be a stopper, wouldn't it?

Milton [TypeKey Profile Page]:

HI, I had to get a new computer a short time ago. My hard drive on the old one was on its way out. It sort of gave me 2 weeks notice that is was about to fail. My last one before that did the same thing. I haven't figured that out yet. Anyway, we had to get an HP business computer in order to get XP on it instead of vista. My wife insisted on buying it at Best Buy, and the business comp was the only way we could go because Vista wouldn't run all the software we have. Bummer! God, how I hate computers.

rickl [TypeKey Profile Page]:

17-year Mac user here. Heh.

Rachel, as chuckR said, if you're using specialized medical transcription software that only runs on Windows, I can't help you.

On the other hand, if you're using programs like Microsoft Word or Excel, then Open Office is a free download which you can get for any platform: Windows, Mac, or Linux.

http://www.openoffice.org/

ErikZ [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I'm highly amused that your readers have been completely useless at helping you solve your problem. :)

Rachel, most settings for your personal preferences in look and feel can be changed by right clicking on the desktop and choosing 'Personalize'.

Have a quick look at this short video from CNet describing how to do so.

Link: http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-25854.html

I know that some people like Vista, but frankly there are people who like to have someone shit in their mouth, so I don't think that's a real good endorsement. To put it bluntly, I find Vista to be a turd. When SP2 finally comes out, it'll probably be okay. But it's been received so poorly that Dell and other manufacturers have started putting XP on machines if requested.

Bill Quick made the switch to Linux rather than move to Vista. I'm pretty sure that Rachel isn't interested, but it's probably a smart move.

otcconan [TypeKey Profile Page]:

I don't even know that much about XP, Rachel. I still used Windows 2000 until about 6 months ago (much more stable than XP, more secure provided you use Norton, takes up less resources, based on the NT system that most businesses (including the one I work for) still use).

The only downside is that some hardware will not work with it (certain scanners, for example). But I had to switch to XP when my HD tanked on me (I cannibalized my 2nd PC and took the best parts of both to make the beast I currently have). I had long ago traded cases with a buddy, and his case had my Win2k serial number on it. And he's in Iraq. So I ended up putting XP on it, since I had a copy of that.

For whatever it's worth... I only upgraded to XP less than a year ago, because my old desktop was finally pooping out and the new hardware won't run 98. And just when I upgraded to XP, they inflicted Vista upon an unsuspecting public. In the past, I have had to reformat my hard drive and reinstall the OS periodically, and just in case that happens in the future, I bought a full (not upgrade) copy of XP Pro, so as long as they build hardware that will run it, I'm good.

PeterB [TypeKey Profile Page]:

The "classic" menus (as they're now called) are still available. If you want to use them only occasionally, press Alt to display the menu bar. (Press Alt again to hide the menu bar.) If you want the menus to remain on screen in the active Windows Explorer window, click Organize, Layout, Menu Bar. (Repeat the command to hide the Classic menus.) If you want the menus to appear by default in all Windows Explorer windows, click Organize, Folder and Search Options, display the View tab, and activate the Always Show Menus check box.

Deep in my heart, I knew the Mac issue would come up. Ugh. I rilly rilly rilly hate Macs. They were in all the computer labs when I was in college several years ago and I actually had DREAMS about attacking one of them the way the guys in Office Space attacked the fax machine. I don't do any of the things on my work computer that Macs excel at (graphics etc), so there is absolutely no temptation to get one. I will say I love those Mac commercials with the two guys though. Man, that was specific.

Anyway. Yeah no one has actually answered my question but that's cool, I still like all the info and opinions. I'm kinda starting to get the urge to completely dive into Vista, figure out all its "issues", and become an expert on the stupid thing. Or maybe not. Rupert has XP that I can put on there, so I may do that. Gotta think about all this some more. Thanks everybody for the help, I really appreciate it!!

PatHMV [TypeKey Profile Page]:

PeterB... that's not the menu she's talking about. In XP, when you single-click on a file, it can be set so that the left pane will display "File and Folder Tasks," instead of the folders list. Those tasks include things like "rename this file" "move this file," "print this file," etc. Apparently this is called the "task pane."

Rachel, I didn't answer your question because I looked and looked and looked and couldn't find anyplace where Vista had the same exact functionality. Now me, I always found it easier to right click and choose "rename" rather than click, move mouse, click on "rename this file," etc., but to each his or her own.

Searching for "task pane" and Vista in Google did lead me to this purported Vista download of an ActiveX control which suggests it will provide the functionality you are looking for. I would never install such a thing on my computer, but it's out there. http://www.bestvistadownloads.com/download-xp-style-explorerbar-explorer-bar-task-pane-taskpane-sidebar-outlookbar-activex-control-component-software.html

I wasn't really saying that, but...yeah...Core2Duos are pretty nice. I wish I could afford one. Sorry to break it to you though, but Core2Duos are available on PC machines too. That's why Macs switched to them, because theyre faster than the "superior" Mac hardware.

I've never had hardware failure either, but even if I had, you can buy 3 PC internal hard drives of equivalent size and speed for the price of one Apple brand -- and you can even install it yourself without voiding some kind of archaic "warranty".

I've never had a "virus attack" either, because if you're not an idiot, you don't get them. That's pretty much how it works. And I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but Mac's aren't "more secure" than PCs. There are just as many bugs and security issues in OSX as there are in XP or Vista...but nobody runs businesses on Macs, so nobody writes viruses or exploits these weaknesses. Mac security is really just indifference.

They're not more stable, either. There's a whole forum here about people with hardware failures on their "superior" machines.

Any edge or hardware superiority for video editing was lost about the time that Apple only offered sub-par GeForce cards in their computers and had to move to using the exact same chips as PCs. Not to mention the lack of Mac support from industry powerhouses like Adobe i.e. CS2 as a universal binary.

My computer costs about half yours and if something happens to break, I can just fix it myself. I guess that makes me a "Genius" huh?

The typical fix for a Mac problem is paying your way out of a hole. I guess if you have the money to blow to make a social statement then go for it! :)

PS I don't understand why you had to result to ad hominem attacks to defend your computer anyway. :(

PPS Sorry Rachel but he called me out.

k2aggie07 [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Oh, and the defrag the hard drive comment was golden. If you really understood how hard drives worked or how data gets fragmented to begin with you'd be laughing right now, too.

There's no difference between Mac and PC hard drive storage methods or fragmentation. And now that Macs use SATA interface, there's pretty much no difference at all other than price.

Eric E [TypeKey Profile Page]:

As a recovering Mac and Linux fanboy myself, I understand where people are coming from when they suggest "switch to Linux" or "get a Mac" with a straight face whenever someone has a complaint about Windows. However, such suggestions are akin to saying "get a Toyota" when someone's Chevy has a flat tire.

That said, I'm not terribly impressed with Vista. It would be a wise move to stick with XP until Vista SP1 comes out in 2017.

tedders [TypeKey Profile Page]:

"get a Toyota" when someone's Chevy has a flat tire."

Ha, that's funny Eric. Or in my case after the chevy transmission takes a hike 100 miles out of warranty and CHEVY says it will cost $4500 dollars to fix it. Guess what, I drive a Toyota (made in the USA) now. That's after being a Chevy small block hot rodder for 30 + years! Anyone need some Chevy parts cheap? Vandergriff Chevy lost my business for life.

Sigivald [TypeKey Profile Page]:

k2a: NTFS and HFS+ are the same? Who knew?

That'd be why Microsoft ships defrag tools with Windows, and Apple doesn't ship any with OSX? Come now - NTFS fragments much more than HFS+ does, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim otherwise previously.

Tedders is correct in that you do not need to defragment HFS+ partitions, in any sort of vaguely normal use, to get decent performance. This is not, in my experience, true of NTFS (especially in real use cases where over 50% of the disk is used) - fragmentation gets hairy and a defrag really does restore significant performance.

Ah, but no, HFS+ is actually very good at preventing fragmentation.

NTFS, while much better than FAT, is more fragmenty than HFS+. (A search on NTFS fragmentation will provide copious evidence of NTFS' comparative fragmentation issues.)

(I say this having used both extensively for years, and running both XP and OSX at home by choice - I have no partisanship for MS or Apple at that level. But the filesystems are different in their allocation schemes and do handle fragmentation in significantly different ways. The idea that they don't would surprise both Microsoft and Apple.)

(On another topic, in general, I'd never suggest someone use linux as a desktop unless they're already a unix geek and don't value their time or mental health. Especially if the idea is to use OpenOffice.

I can't answer Andrea's question, mainly because I've never used the feature she speaks of in XP at all, and I've only really used Vista for testing installers in a VM.

That said, I don't understand why people have such a hate on for it. Sure, the security prompting is annoying, but it can be turned off for people who know what they're doing - and for people who don't know what they're doing, well, that's the whole point.)

Eric E [TypeKey Profile Page]:

Tedders, I hope my little analogy illustrated how ridiculous such elitist non-answers are. Of course, I haven't exactly made an effort to answer the original question either... :-)

Sigivald:


On another topic, in general, I'd never suggest someone use linux as a desktop unless they're already a unix geek and don't value their time or mental health. Especially if the idea is to use OpenOffice.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Spending a week getting a LaserJet III to work, only to watch KOffice completely screw up font size and pagination is what finally broke me of my Linux fanboyism. I could have typed that one-page letter in 10 minutes on a manual typewriter, for Pete's sake.

I'm reminded of the quote:
Linux is only free if your time has no value.

When you're in full geek mode, time spent with Linux can be rewarding and even fun. But once you grow out of that stage (say, after graduating with a computer science degree), it just becomes a pain.

I'm going to stay out of the Mac vs Windows holy war except to say that both are perfectly competent operating systems, and it really comes down to personal preference.

tedders [TypeKey Profile Page]:

"Sorry to break it to you though, but Core2Duos are available on PC machines too"

You're not breaking anything too me, I didn't like it when Jobs switched but since I've own an Intel Mac I cant complain. I understand why he switched, evidently the Motorola chips weren't as promising as the Intel Duo Core chips.

" I guess that makes me a "Genius" huh?"

No, but it evidently impresses you greatly, It's nice to like yourself, isn't it?

"I guess if you have the money to blow to make a social statement then go for it! :)"

You're taking yourself way to seriously Aggie and going off on a tangent to boot, keep your comments on social statements to yourself, you don't have a clue or know what your talking about.

"PPS Sorry Rachel but he called me out."

Are you delusional? Call you out? You need to get out more often!

tedders [TypeKey Profile Page]:

"Tedders, I hope my little analogy illustrated how ridiculous such elitist non-answers are. Of course, I haven't exactly made an effort to answer the original question either... :-)"

Yes it did Eric, I was playing along with you ; )

But the chevy transmission story is true! Truth be told I still own and drive Chevys! LOL!

"I'm going to stay out of the Mac vs Windows holy war except to say that both are perfectly competent operating systems, and it really comes down to personal preference."

Hey, a sane person! Both systems have advanced greatly. I tend to go with the "simple is better" team. I guess Aggie thinks I should sell the 15,000 shares of Apple I bought at $6.00 a share and buy Microsoft stock! That aint gonna happen anytime soon! If he thinks he's a genius because he can swap his own hard drive, more power to him, you'd think such a fine school would put out people who were more open to innovation though. (just kidding Aggie, no more hate mail please, you can keep your wintel machine)

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