Two Minutes Hate: bloggers are liars and sin is what Obama decides it is.
What was supposed to be a week of me covering for one of the transcriptionists I work with has turned into covering for TWO of them. It is the stuff that nightmares are made of, and I just might die.
So I wish to spend the limited blogging time I have this morning hatin’ on the Obamas. Both of them. All of this is from Hot Air.
First, Michelle said this:
“Don’t trust bloggers or someone else’s opinion, because people lie.”
Yeah, like POLITICIANS? As if bloggers are the only ones with opinions that may be total bullshit. Not race-mongering, American-hating Senators’ wives. Riiiigggght.
Granted, she was probably referring to the rumor yesterday of a tape in which she was allegedly caught saying “Whitey”. I didn’t believe that the first time I read it because something about the name Larry C. Johnson stuck in my head and also, I tend not to believe something for which the source is described thusly:
“I have not seen it but I have heard from five separate sources who have spoken directly with people who have seen the tape.”
Now that’s solid reporting, my friends! Top-notch!
This morning I found out why the name Larry C. Johnson niggled my neurons. Basically, he’s a douchebag.
Ironically, the “lying bloggers” Michelle was likely referring to aren’t Republicans or conservatives but probably specifically this particular leftwinger, who goes to YearlyKos conventions and said in 2000 that Bin Laden’s ability to conduct terrorist operations was “extremely limited,” and in July 2001 (two months before 9/11) wrote this:
Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.
None of these beliefs are based in fact…
I hope for a world where facts, not fiction, determine our policy. While terrorism is not vanquished, in a world where thousands of nuclear warheads are still aimed across the continents, terrorism is not the biggest security challenge confronting the United States, and it should not be portrayed that way.
Alllll righty then. Moving on.
GG:
What is sin?OBAMA:
Being out of alignment with my values.
At first, I was all, so? What’s wrong with that answer? Then I thought, if you are going to call yourself a Christian and talk about sin, then the only answer to that question should be more like “Doing shit that the Bible says is sin.”
But that is my half-assed opinion and besides, I’m not a Christian so I’d rather stay out of this one. Although when you get down to it, it IS a little scary that the man believes sin is defined by his own personal values. If you want to feel that way, you really shouldn’t be a Christian. Is all I’m saying. I thought one of the main points of Christianity is that you do what God and Jesus say, not what YOU say. Then again, I suppose if pressed, Barack might say that his “values” are what God and Jesus say.
I’m shuttin my cakehole now. Can’t think when I’m in a hurry. I’m interested to see some debate on this though.
Not going to be the one to start the debates, too much work to do myself. Just wanted to offer my condolences for your “overworkedness” (that’s right, I said overworkedness), and thank you for the time you DO put into your writing here.
We all love you Wachel…
[oh, and I say go back to the "Sorry for doing this to your internet" slogan. I know it's not new, but it's my favorite.
]
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 amESTObama’s answer was silly.
You have to have values first before you could be out of alignmnent with them.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:34 amESTGG: What is sin?
OBAMA: Being out of alignment with my values.
I had to follow the link, just to double-check the “context”, and… wow. There’s actually A LOT there to pick apart.
But if you asked most Christians the question, “What is sin?”, and gave them a fill-in-the-blank: “Being out of alignment with ______ values,” the word that would go in there would most definitely NOT be “my”.
This guy is so weasely, it’s cringe-worthy. I don’t know how he can possibly claim to be “a different kind of politician”. He is so afraid of offending anyone.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:36 amESTIn about three months, I predict that we will all see video of a Barack Obama press conference where he calls all the major networks to a marina and has them film him stepping off the end of a dock to prove that he can walk on water. It will get about 100 million hits on Youtube and be titled “Obama Makes Splash to Begin General Election.”
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:50 amESTFirst of all, please don’t die. If you die I am NOT sending you that pirate hat for Sunny. Seriously.
Secondly, I love the O’Bama family. Always good for a chuckle. At least Barry’s been honest with us. He’s told us what he really thinks about us (uncomplimentary as it is), it’s really refreshing to hear a leftist politician say what he truly thinks.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:51 amESTI think that’s also a demonstration of Obama seeing his religion as a political tool he has to be careful to use. Talking about God in such an open environment wouldn’t be good. Might turn off his anti-religion supporters. So he throws it out there as something that people who hate christians can be “kosher” with and something that his religious supporter can say exactly as you thought he would respond with if pressed. “Well he’s a Christian so his values are Christian values which are God’s values.”
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 amESTObama’s answer is typical secular humanist moral relativism. He’s a CINO anyway, so the “doing shit the Bible says is sin” doesn’t apply to him. He is running for the Dem nomination, after all.
Moral relativism makes sin a non-concept. If your values indicate that you should listen to the voices in your head that tell you to kill in the name of Jodie Foster or not report your taxable income because “it’s my money and I want it now,” well…you may not be “sinning” in your own mind, but what you’re doing is actually highly illegal.
Matt E.: That was a stellar post which simply reiterates what secular humanism is all about: replace “God” with “me” because I am what matters most–and therefore why God matters least–if at all.
FYI: In my world, secular humanism (placing the creation ahead of the Creator) is completely different than simply not knowing the Creator.
I have little respect for secular humanists–I have immense respect for those whose honest pursuit of truth has not yet led them to knowing the Creator–but has not deterred them from trying to make sense of this world, nor has the lack of knowledge deterred them from the pursuit of it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 amESTDo you mean the “bitter” comments? You weren’t supposed to hear that. It was at a gathering for San Fran elites no one was supposed to know about what was said except someone at huffpo thought there was nothing wrong with it getting out.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 amESTI would say that Barack’s take on sin is par for the course at this point. Anybody doubting there is something seriously wrong with this man and the way he thinks about the world should probably reevaluate the situation.
This is a man who clearly thinks he’s the Second Coming of Jesus. On the one hand he tries to hide his very high opinion of himself but he’ll never truly pull that off because it’s very apparent he loves to talk about himself waaaay too much. Which is probably a development of his inability to come up with any real solutions to the very real problems we are facing. It’s all about the soundbite for him and what makes him sound better without actually promising anything.
I’m a Christian - and therefore should be more forgiving - but I can very honestly say I really want to be there when he’s giving an accounting of himself before God. (Occasionally schadenfreude brings me joy. Particularly when dealing with people who have way too high an opinion of themselves. Not really a Christ-like attitude, I know, so sue me.) I would pay to see the man who thinks he’s God try to double-speak his way around the actual God.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 amESTI like this definition of sin (from Mark Shea):
“The heart of sin is to treat persons like things and things like persons. To act thus is to run the film of creation backwards, to wrench the universe hard astern. We treat persons like things through sins like pride, lust, slavery, and murder; we treat things like persons through sins like idolatry, greed, gluttony, and avarice.”
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:10 amESTClever turn of phrase, there, Cosmo.
I just have to shake my head when, leaving the other thread bloody and bruised, I come here and find out that, once again, I am wrong by definition.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 amESTBarry O. sees himself as the standard. THE standard - so that sin is based on his ideology. I am put in mind of Pilate’s “What is truth?” question. Is truth, for Barak, to live in alignment with his values? Then there is no objective truth? Whoa.
Secondly, Obama’s take on sin certainly makes it easier how he could listen to Wright’s diatribes for 20 years and not react - it it’s not about him, he’s not interested. He is, after all, the (new) Gold Standard.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 amESTSpot on, Rachel. Let me throw my 2 cents in. By his saying “my values” it opens it up to a broad interpretation. That’s where liberalism gets its strength–everyone living according to their own interpretation of values. Everything is relative, there are no absolutes. For a believing Christian, the 10 Commandments provide pretty straight-forward rules on how to live life. However, compare the commandments and how the world is today. Something is terribly wrong when wrong becomes right and right becomes wrong. Innocents get blamed for evil that is done to them and the guilty are portrayed as victims. Everything Obama stands for is diametrically opposed to what is right and good. The so-called “preachers” that he associates himself with do not spread the good news of the Gospel, but spread anger, bitterness, and hate. These people can be considered “false prophets” who claim to be of God but their actions betray them. The sad thing is that this is what the Obama’s are–huge pretenders and trying to claim to be one thing but their actions betray who they really are.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:25 amESTAnd yet, it’s not ok to dig into his spiritual background NOW… There really is a great deal of info to dig through here.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 amESTHuh. So Galileo was wrong after all.
The world revolves around Barack.
How in the world do you answer a question about sin and manage NOT to use the word God or Christ?
Of course, when you have sermons filled up with how bad Whitey is and how the government is screwing you over and causing diseases and how “The Man” is keeping you down, there’s not much time to talk about grace and sanctification and justification and righteousness and atonement and all that. It’s understandable that Barry may have never encountered these concepts.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 amESTSin, according to the Christian Cyclopedia, is:
Transgression of God’s law (Ro 4:15; 1 Jn 3:4). Sin may be divided into original sin and actual sin. Actual sin (every act, thought, emotion (e.g., lust*) conflicting with God’s law) may be involuntary or may be done ignorantly (Acts 17:30) and includes sins of commission (cf., e.g., Mt 15:19; Ja 1:15) and sins of omission (Ja 4:17). Sin arouses God’s righteous wrath and deserves His punishment. Willful sin sears conscience*; repeated, it hardens the heart; may lead to, but is not identical with, the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit.
I don’t see human values, not even Obama’s values, listed in the definition.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:29 amESTI’m still waiting to see and hear the video of the “whitey” v. “why’d he?” issue.
Simply because it seems like it could’ve been one of those private jokes using the double entendre.
it is quite possible that they were enjoying a laugh, knowing the whole time that they could use the second, more polite meaning as cover.
Radio personalities use this all the time in joke commercials - like Bob and Tom’s fictitious company called Dicken’s Fruit Company. Which now makes cider. Yep, Dicken’s Cider. And then the jokes keep on rolling, like “now comes in quarts” and “it’s so good for you that she’ll even love just a little Dicken’s Cider…”
Sorry to not quite get off this subject yet. Maybe the comments Michelle and Wright were exchanging were completely wholesome and innocent.
Or maybe they thought they were being so smart and clever that they could easily get away with something…
Now that doesn’t sound like Obama and Wright, does it?
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 amESTObamaniacs treat him as the Messiah, so I guess his answer makes sense to his supporters.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:51 amESTObvious transcription error that nobody seems to have caught:
OBAMA: Being out of alignment with My values.
See? It’s commonly accepted that the deity’s pronouns be capitalized. For He is the light of the world, he who follows Him will not walk in darkness.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 amESTHi Rachel.
One definition of sin is to miss the mark. God’s mark is perfection. We cannot behave our way or think our way into perfection.
Tangent: Sleeper cells here are excused to go to church in order to meet their goals. They are justified living among their enemies and do the “when in Rome” thing. Can’t say that that is what this asshole is doing, but I can’t say that he isn’t either. Whether on purpose or as a puppet on strings held by some sinister force, the endgame of the big chess match looks the same. America’s (as we now know it and certainly as the Founding Fathers intended it) downfall. It is amazing how easily a large amount of people in our country have become thoughtless lemmings.
Evil has the uncanny ability to assume many forms.
An interesting thing about the whole Obama phenomenon is the pride with which they say it all started with young people and the elderly. Well, go figure! No shit! Who are the primary targets of any skilled con artist? He may mean well, he may not. Either way, he is a fucking disaster. And at the least, his campaign should serve as a heads up for us to be looking for the Wolf in sheep’s clothing that is certainly on the way to the global scene. Something tells me that his arrival will look fairly similar.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 pmESTLarry Johnson is an ex-CIA analyst who used to post on the Counterterrorism Blog, and got into a bit of a tiff with “someone” over his contention that terrorism was increasing in other parts of the world while we were preoccupied with Iraq. “Someone” demonstrated that while the number of reported incidents had gone up in places like Kashmir, the “quality” had gone way down. (They often ended up just killing their own, or were captured without doing much damage.) Moreover, it’s entirely possible that the increase in terrorist incidents was a reporting artifact. That is, the number hadn’t actually increased, but the reporting had improved. At that point he just called “someone” names for awhile.
Eventually I noticed he’d quit posting on the Counterterrorism Blog. I don’t know whether they kicked him off, or he just realized he wasn’t with the program there.
I think he and Valerie Plame attended the same kindergarten.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 pmESTDickens Fruit Company — right next door to Sofa King.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 pmESTVintage!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:39 pmESTI was always a fan of the Norfolk and Way overnight train shipping company myself.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 pmESTNote to Barack & Michelle Obama:
You are the beneficiaries of affirmative action. Had you not been given special opportunities based on the color of your skin, you might otherwise be quite ordinary. You have been priveleged, but this does not confer on you any of the following: intelligence, insight, wisdom, or any common virtue. Some things must be earned.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:47 pmESTI’m not sure which is more remarkable: Jimmy Carter’s self-flagellation — committing adultery in his heart! — or Obama’s utter self absorption. Amazing!
So are some liberals born with a Messiah complex, while some achieve them, and some have their Messiah status thrust upon them?
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:48 pmESTI’m no Obama apologist but he probably was talking about what he considers his own personal sin in that quote. That’s actually a pretty mature, open eyed definition. And it doesn’t necessarily contradict scripture either.
The Apostle Paul wrote
…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God that works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Phillipians 2:12-13
And again in I Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Now if he was talking about other people sinning by not alligning their deeds with his personal values well…maybe he really is The Golden Child.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pmESTMy 1st reaction was similar, Rachel: “Out of alignment with HIS values ?”
When did he get to write the rules on what sin is ?
I don’t see his name associated with the 10 Commandments, for example.
What an ASS.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 pmESTObama has become a cult of personality.
Check out the lyrics to this Living Colour song and tell me if it doesn’t mostly fit Wonder Boy:
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/living-colour/cult-of-personality.html
A few lines:
“I sell the things you need to be”
“I exploit you, still you love me”
“I tell you 1 and 1 makes 3″
However, I have always liked the Pres. Kennedy sound byte near the end “Ask not what your country can do for you”.
In case anyone’s interested in the video:
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:00 pmESThttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ5SVDYBNrY
Reno Sepulveda,
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 pmESTI think you’re being awfully generous to Mr. Obama there. Paul was addressing whether a Christian was obligated to perform certain rituals, eat certain foods whilst abstaining from others, observe fast days, etc., in order to do God’s will. In that sense, he was saying that what might be sin for another — e.g. eating ‘unclean’ food — would not be sin for him, because of the purity of his intent, not because of his ‘values!’
Obama is an idiot, not a Christian. (not that non-Christians are idiots. HE’S an idiot because he’s talking out of his ass) Part of the point is that truth is objective -external -, not subjective -internal-. Mr. Hope/Change is all about knowing what is right for him, a good little subjectivist.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pmESTWhat is sin?
A conceptual framework whereby ancient illiterate herder tribes could generally determine right from wrong without having to think too much about it. For the rest of us, sin is as sin does.
yours/
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pmESTpeter.
Felicity, admit it or not we all filter the bible and adjust the text to suit us. I have a hard enough time trying to live up to the things I think are black and white let alone the gray areas. I’ll give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this one.
I think we would be wise to pick our battles when it comes to Obama. He’s a likable guy and the press is in the tank for him. Part of the problem with the Clintons was people were making a huge deal about every little thing they did “wrong” from supposedly pornographic Chrismas tree ornaments to them getting a dog to take attention away from Monica. After awhile people just quit listening.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:55 pmESTpeter jackson Says:
What is sin?
Hmmmmm. How about: the exercise of one’s own will, whether by thought, word, or deed, in a manner not subject to God’s will (which for Christians, is summed up in the two — count ‘em, two! — commandments).
Edit: I think sarahk says it better!
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:11 pmESTPaul here is quoting his opponents’ argument, and answering with his own. Here’s the CJP (CJ’s Paraphrase) of that passage.
“‘All things are lawful unto me,’ Hardly. But even if they are, all things are not expedient. ‘All things are lawful for me.’ Whatever. I will not be brought under the power of anything.”
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:14 pmESTSin is transgressing God’s law. It’s kind of the Biblical definition. I’m not sure Barack owns a Bible, though, so go easy on him.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pmESTOh shit. Here we go again.
Where is my helmet? Who is in charge of where I put my helmet?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pmESTNot a Christian. Not an Obama fan.
But I hate a stampede to judgment, folks.
Obama’s statement unpacks to, “When I became a Christian, I adopted Christian values. For me sin is when I am out of line with those values.”
In fact, if you read the entire exchange, you will see that that is pretty clearly his meaning.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:18 pmESTTurd, this helmet?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:19 pmESTCan anyone tell me why supposedly brilliant uber-techies are falling all over themselves to worship this guy?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:28 pmESTCharlie, yup, because racism is a Christian value.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 pmESTNot to nitpick, but it’s not mathematically possible for July 2001 to have been three weeks from 9/11. 9/11 was seven weeks from the 1st of August.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:33 pmESTWhat I saw from the whole exchange is a man who would totally french kiss himself if he could.
I don’t fault people for standing up and saying “This is what I believe in” but at some point it crosses a line and becomes less about the faith and more about “Look at what a wonderful person I am.” Obama has clearly crossed that line and his comment about sin demonstrates that.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 pmEST(error in your post: July 2001 was three months before 9/11, not weeks)
[Der! Told you I was in a hurry. Fixed and thanks for flagging! Rachel]
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 pmESTI think it’s perfectly reasonable, after Father Michael Pfleger, a man whom Obama has acknowledged as “a dear friend,” has stood up in Obama’s church of 20 years and said “America is sin!” to examine Mr. Obama’s views, including those he expressed in this interview from 2004, and especially those on ’sin.’
The man repeatedly refers to himself as a Christian, but just as frequently, qualifies that belief. Is it really unreasonable to ask, therefore, what does he really believe? And is it not useful to point out his verbal gymnastics? Do they not bespeak a certain, shall we say, lack of sincerity?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pmESTThen I thought, if you are going to call yourself a Christian and talk about sin, then the only answer to that question should be more like “Doing shit that the Bible says is sin.”
I can’t find the blog link but try to find a longer version of the text of Obama’s comments in this situation. His comments that follow this quote clearly indicate that he is taking his values from his creator.
In other words, he’s getting quote-screwed. Apparently even Conservatives are guilty of this kind of deception.
How sad, really. With all the things you can rightfully bash Obama for people have to go out and manufacture crap like this.
It’s pathetic really.
[What's sad and pathetic is that you are apparently using a computer monitor that magically blocks from your vision the very plain link to the longer version of the text you assume I don't supply, as Felicity helpfully points out a few comments after this one. New monitor! You needeth one! Love, Rachel]
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pmESTDon’t ask me….I’m just a liberal trying to figure out where my Messiah complex is. I’m very upset that I have not yet received it, taken it, or had it gobsmacked against me.
/eye roll
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 pmESTpaul a’barge,
Gotcher blog link right here (ahem, see Rachel’s post, above?):
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 pmESTJust for reference, here’s a transcript of the interview. The quotes in question are near the end of the interview.
As an Agnostic, I have to say that the quotes right before that, especially the ones about Heaven, were awfully weaselly. He definitely gave the impression that he didn’t really believe any of the foundational principles of Christianity, but wanted to sound like it to the right people, while leaving outs in his interview that would allow him to have wiggle room if called on it from the Left. I wouldn’t have any problem with several of the things he said, except that they don’t jive with his claim of being Christian.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:16 pmESTThere are two really good other lines in that interview I got in skimming through.
To be used when Obama claims that Wright was just his pastor.
For whenever he tries to claim that he had not actually heard those controversial things Wright said. I wonder if the Chickens coming home to roost sermon was at 11.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pmESTAt this stage of the game, it doesn’t really matter if the lovely Michelle stuck her foot once more into her mouth with the alleged quote in the alleged tape, or not. After all of the vitriol and patently anti-/un-American remarks that she has spewed, people are all too willing to believe that -tape or no tape - she probably did say it. (And, the alleged conversation quoted on various blogs show that there, indeed, can be no confusion whatsoever between “whitey” and “why’d he”.)
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pmESTPerhaps hitlery is hanging on so that the tape (if it does exist) can blow hussein out of the water and she will be the only “viable” candidate. (Of course, the hussein freakazoids will be sure that it was all a hitlery plot in the first place - and withold their votes from her.
Can you say “President McCain”, boys and girls?
Uh oh! How’d I get up on this soapbox?
Sorry, folks! Didn’t belong there — down now.
Brooke Says:
Brooooke, not all, Some! You have to be one of the anointed ones :)!
WayneB,
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:32 pmESTWe concur? Okay, maybe I’m not nuts!
My take:
Sin is the state of being separated from God. Since the ultimate separation we can experience is death, the saying “the wages of sin is death” makes perfect sense in context. Ultimate separation from someone we love also brings deep grief, which (at least in my experience), rather fits the description of “the fire that burns but does not consume”. Hence, the reason why sinners “go to hell”, and why Hell is hot.
There’s your appetizer portion of heresy for the day.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:47 pmESTIf “sin” means “being out of alignment with my values” as Senator Obama states, then each person has a right to define “sin” according to his own values. Such being the case each person holding such a view becomes a law unto himself. Those who disagree with him become sinful. The election of such a person as the President of the United States, with a compliant Congress, will insure that justices appointed to the U S Supreme Court will be nominees with the same viewpoint as Mr Obama. The First Amendment will become an outdated historical oddity. No free speech; no freedom of religion; no right of assembly and no right to petition Congress.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:47 pmESTYeah, Obama’s getting “quote screwed” alright. If by “quote screwed” you mean “accurately quoting him and taking what he says at face value.”
I read the whole interview and what I take away from it is that he believes he’s a Christian. He just doesn’t believe the things that Christians traditionally believe. [Insert Inigo Montoya quote here if you're inclined]
I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people. and later There’s the belief, certainly in some quarters, that people haven’t embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior that they’re going to hell. I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell. I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity. That’s just not part of my religious makeup. Barack Obama
Lots of ‘my’s in there aren’t there? Let’s contrast - I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, but by Me. Jesus Christ
When asked if he prays, Barry says yes, then describes how he talks to himself.
When asked who Jesus is to him, he starts with, ‘A historical figure’. (Here’s a hint - we’re looking for ‘Son of God’ here)
What happens if you have sin in your life?
…If I’m true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward, when I’m not true to it, it’s its own punishment.
From where I come from, those kinds of statements make Barack more of a Unitarian/Universalist than a Christian.
Then again, I’m just narrow minded.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:57 pmESTDigressing to Michelle’s comment:
If the multiple studies cited in this article are valid, maybe she was just projecting?(HT: Frank J.)
Actually, though, this part of that article speaks to both Obamas!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:05 pmESTSo, like his grandparents?
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:09 pmESTGood grief. We’ve gone from debating if he’s really a Muslim in Christian clothing (oh no!) to what kind of Christian he is to everyone believing that regardless, he’s a pathological narcissist.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pmESTWell, Brooke, he IS a pathological narcissist!! See, even you liberals understand that :).
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:04 pmESTOh Bill…anyone who has the stones to run for office in this day in age has to be a pathological narcissist. And that stretches across the board from right to left, north to south, red to blue. It takes a lot of ego to say, “Hey, I can run things better than you!”
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 pmESTIf that’s what he meant then he should have said it. As the sentence stands, he’s either saying that his personal values are the ultimate standard for goodness and righteousness, or he is claiming some bizarre ownership over the very concept of Christian values.
Oh, don’t even get me started on the Goddamn Unitarians.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:24 pmESTFrom Obama’s speech tonight:
Maybe this election will be fun after all!
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:30 pmESTmightysamurai,
My husband’s family are all Unitarians. I’m tempted to get you started (for commiseration, of course.)
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:46 pmESTI don’t know which is more laughable about Obama’s definition of sin….his theological ignorance or his jaw dropping arrogance in defining it in terms of himself….he is apparently in the midst of an ongoing slow motion self-beclowning with gems like that and I for one intend to just sit back and watch this low brow comedy continue to unfold and garner my share of chuckles with the occasional guffaw
June 4th, 2008 at 1:25 amESTIt’s not Unitarianism that I don’t care for, but Unitarians themselves. I don’t know what it is exactly but something about their attitude just….irritates me. Though in fairness, the only Unitarians I’ve ever met are my grandparents and their congregation (the phrase “liberal cesspool” comes to mind) so my opinion of them may be somewhat skewed.
I’ve decided it’s best for all parties involved if we just stay away from each other from now on.
June 4th, 2008 at 7:59 amESTI’m not one to defend Obama because I think he’s a loon and his wife is insane.
However, what I think he was saying here was….
Oh never mind. I’ll stick with “I’m not one to defend Obama because I think he’s a loon and his wife is insane”.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:37 amESTLarry Johnson, if people remember, was the ex-CIA clown that was excoriating the Bush administration over Iraq and having hissy fits every day about Valerie Plame during that circus. All of a sudden, many of the same people who had their noses up his butt are now saying he’s crazy. Of course, he’s always been a kook, but Bush haters will love anybody that gets the hate on for the President.
As for Obama’s comment about sin, I don’t think it is fair to put that point of view on liberals or liberalism, because it’s not a ‘group’ issue. Obama is simply another person in a long line of people who say they’re Christians simply because they believe in Jesus Christ. I personally know people who say they are Christian yet also tell me that there is more than one pathway to heaven. Of course, that doesn’t square with John 14:6 where Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one shall come unto the Father, but by me.” So people get to say they’re Christian, yet still act as their own arbiter of what is and what is not sin. That’s why he said “my values” because to somebody like him, the Bible is just another book, not a manual for how to live your life. This is not to say that I am any better than he is. I recognize what sin is from a biblical perspective and how God frowns upon it and I still sin. Every day. And so does every other Christian on the face of the earth.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:15 amEST“How in the world do you answer a question about sin and manage NOT to use the word God or Christ?”
Well, it would be hard, but a somewhat secular definition of ’sin’ could be formed in either a socratic or Aristotilean fashion.
a) Sin as ‘breaking moral or ethical laws’ followed with “Here, I’ll give you a list of those laws so you can know sin when you see it”
b) Sin as violation of an moral axiom, as in, ‘Failure to follow the Golden Rule’. Or even, less Christian but at least consistant, ‘Harming others to promote yourself’.
What sin most certainly isn’t is failure to abide by your own values. Failure to abide by your values is hypocricy and hypocricy is most easily avoided by having no values. Likewise, if sin is only breaking your own values, then there is no test by which we can discover whether something is sin. Likewise, since a person may change thier values, those people least willing to abide by thier values would also be the least sinful. If sin is defined by Obama’s definition, people who are the least ethical would be the most righteous.
There is of course an even uglier interpretation of what Obama said, namely that Obama was placing himself in the role of authority over what constitutes sin. In other words, he could be saying, “A thing is sinful if I say it is.” That would at least be a consistant definition, but it would also be claiming to be God (or at least his representative on the Earth).
June 4th, 2008 at 10:16 amESTI dont trust obama he is your usial cut and dried liberal demacrat he is possibly the antichrist
June 4th, 2008 at 10:45 amESTNext he’ll tell us he created the world in six days.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:09 pmESTWait a minute… he didn’t? I could swear my copy of the Bible said he did. Yep, there it is:
Yep, it’s all right there in black and, well, um, off-white.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:24 pmESTWell, don’t take agreeing with me as an indication that you’re not nuts…
I thought it was hilarious that we both linked to the same transcript within 5 minutes of each other, though!
June 4th, 2008 at 3:08 pmESTWayneB,
So our minds stink alike, eh? The timing, we haz it!
(I’m presently having a very private gloat (because, frankly, who else gives a rip?) over being mere inches behind the cutting edge with my Obamessiah victory speech quote up there — June 3rd, 2008 at 10:30 pm? I’m so on the
June 4th, 2008 at 3:56 pmESTcutting edgebevel!)In his victory speech, did he thank God? I mean, he has to keep his Muslim vote in the USA too, even if he isn’t Muslim anymore.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:05 amESTI’ll tell you what Obama thinks is not sin. The murder of unborn and partiallly born people. Nor does he believe homosexuality is a sin. He also believes racism against whitey is not a sin. Only racism against blacks.
He may not be a Muslim but he is certainly not a Christian.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:04 amESTHi Brooke.
Caution is important, considering that 19 people disguised themselves as something they weren’t and wound up killing 2,740 Americans on 9/11/2001.
Caution is NOT paranoia. It was the inability to think outside of the box that partly enabled our enemies to succeed that day.
And don’t you forget it.
Believe me, I know that my contingency thinking isn’t world renowned due to unparalleled clarity, brilliance and faultless accuracy. But scoffing at unbelievable scenarios is what the left and MSM have been hammering for years now. When America’s national security is threatened and we are faced with the “damned if you do damned if you don’t” scenario, what do you do? YOU DO. Period.
Didn’t DO (prevent) 9/11 = Bush’s fault & Bush is an idiot.
Did DO Iraq to topple saddam and won that war = Bush is an idiot and it is Bush’s fault that Iran is at war with us vicariously through Iraq/Israel today.
His inability to explain the importance of all of this to bleeding heart liberals who can’t understand how to successfully deal with a 6th grade bully, let alone a nuclear armed madman is what makes him a “lame duck”? Fuck that. Bush is a lame duck because we live among softies that propagate axioms started by our enemies in the first place! Bush lied, civil war, etc. He really had no fuckin’ choice to make. Ask the congress that OVERWHELMINGLY said the same goddamned thing.
Something else is bugging me. All this bitching still going on about not getting osama bin laden and therefore not getting those responsible for 9/11 is wayyy off the mark. We got the people responsible. Number one man is being tried starting today, and bleeding heart neuron knotted deep thinking fools are complaining about kalid sheikh mohamed not having civil rights. Wow. WTF?
We are nearly certain that obl simply nodded and basically said “… sounds good to me. Go for it.”. It wasn’t his idea. He did not finance it. Would’ve been attempted even if he’d never been born.
Intentions can be noble. Socialism is a noble intent. But it doesn’t work. Some argue otherwise, but I can say it is not an American ideal put forth by America’s founders. Appeasement is a noble intention. But it doesn’t work either. As a hippie wannabe, I wouldn’t mind both of those working in roundabout ways. It could be cool. But I live in reality. I take lots and lots of vacations from it, but history proves that Obama is WRONG on almost all of his hope/change agenda because they involve socialism and appeasement.
Ever had some homeless bum try to rob you after you gave him 5 bucks? That is what sometimes happens when caution, wisdom and common sense take a back seat to universal love and being my brother’s keeper. Our founding fathers knew that and never legislated that Americans have to do jack shit for their neighbors/brothers/whatever. We are afforded the right to choose to. Personal welfare is much more efficient than government run welfare/love/hopechange/whatever because discernment and common sense become paramount when using MY OWN money and MY OWN DELIVERY SYSTEM versus money taken from someone else and thrown around “liberally”.
That is my convoluted definition of “compassionate conservatism” which I really liked about George Bush. He could have and should have been a great one. It is a real shame. History of this era is yet to be studied. Who know what they’ll think and teach in 50 years.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:08 amESTOsama is an idiot. We’re doomed…
June 7th, 2008 at 9:50 pmEST