A story full of fail.
UPDATED with even more fail
I’m no lawyer, cop, or drug agent, but so many things about seem so very, very wrong. Via reader Charles:
A police SWAT team raided the home of the mayor in the Prince George’s County town of Berwyn Heights on Tuesday, shooting and killing his two dogs, after he brought in a 32-pound package of marijuana that had been delivered to his doorstep, police said.
…[Prince George's police spokesman Henry] Tippett said police are working to determine for whom the drugs were meant.
“My government blew through my doors and killed my dogs,” Calvo said. “They thought we were drug dealers, and we were treated as such. I don’t think they really ever considered that we weren’t.”
Calvo described a chaotic scene, in which he — wearing only underwear and socks — and his mother-in-law were handcuffed and interrogated for hours. They were surrounded by the dogs’ carcasses and pools of the dogs’ blood, Calvo said.
…The investigation that led police to their house in the 8500 block of Edmonston Road began in Arizona, officials said. There, a police dog at a shipping facility identified the package as being filled with marijuana. Prince George’s officers posed as deliverymen and brought it to Calvo’s home.
Calvo said he came home early from work Tuesday. While walking the dogs, Calvo said, he noticed several black sport-utility vehicles and a woman parked in a car down the street. “I figured someone was having a party,” he recalled. It was the police. They were watching, waiting for someone to bring the package into the house.
As Calvo returned to the house, he said, he spotted the large package that his mother-in-law had told a deliveryman to leave on the porch. He placed it on a buffet table near the front door and went upstairs to change.
“I brought it inside because I figured it was something we’d gotten for the garden,” he said. Moments later, just after he had undressed, Calvo said, he heard his mother-in-law scream that someone was coming toward the house. He looked out his bedroom window and saw officers in SWAT gear running across the lawn.
“I heard a loud crash and then ‘bang, bang, bang,’ ” he said, recalling the sounds of the police shooting the dogs. “I hit the floor.”
As the police came in, Calvo said, they shot his 7-year-old black Labrador retriever, Payton, near the front door and then his 4-year-old dog, Chase, also a black Lab, as the dog ran into a back room.
Questions:
1. What kind of morons use shipping to exchange drugs?
2. More importantly, to what kind of moron law-enforcement official would it not occur that perhaps the addressee on a package full of drugs MIGHT NOT EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT? Anyone could do this to anyone. You want to ruin someone’s life? Put a bunch of drugs in a package, address it to your enemy, and ship it. The authorities might not even ask questions, they’ll just be kicking down doors, killin’ dogs, and ruining lives.
3. In what kind of fucked-up criminal justice system is it really believed and acted upon that such manpower and firepower needs to be spent on marijuana? Jesus of Colombia, aren’t there more valuable ways to spend a SWAT team’s time? Legalize that weed for pete’s sake.
I generally like the cops, I do. Got nothing against them. But it’s exactly this kind of story that makes people distrust law enforcement. Bad job there, Lou. Real bad job.
And as usual, YES I KNOW there are two sides to every story. Maybe the dogs were threatening (especially the one running into another room), maybe this mayor guy has a criminal history not mentioned in the article (which I doubt; he’s the MAYOR, anything about him would be easily available to reporters). I’m just saying. It’s only pot for the love of god and also, the article concludes thusly:
Berwyn Heights Police Chief Patrick Murphy said county police and the Sheriff’s Office had not notified his department of the raid. He said town police could have conducted the search without a SWAT team.
“You can’t tell me the chief of police of a municipality wouldn’t have been able to knock on the door of the mayor of that municipality, gain his confidence and enter the residence,” Murphy said. “It would not have been a necessity to shoot and kill this man’s dogs.”
That’s what I’m talking about. Criminy.
UPDATE: Thanks to commenters for links to followup articles about this story. It just gets :
The package was addressed to Trinity Tomsic, Calvo’s wife. But law enforcement sources said last week that they are now investigating the possibility that the mayor and his wife were unwitting recipients and that a deliveryman might have intended to intercept the package as part of a drug smuggling scheme.
And puts it like I would if I were smarter:
The real question is whether there will be any discussion over the appropriateness of sending a SWAT team into any private home, handcuffing the occupants at gunpoint, and slaughtering the family pets—all over the mere receipt of a mailed package of weed. I doubt it.
Even if hizzoner turns out to be guilty, it’s always worth contextualizing these cases: We’ve reached the point where it’s commonplace for the government to wage violent, confrontational invasions of private homes over the suspicion of possession of the dried leaves of a plant.
UPDATE #2:
Prince George’s County authorities did not have a “no-knock” warrant when they burst into the home of a mayor July 29, shooting and killing his two dogs — contrary to what police said after the incident.
A Prince George’s police spokesman said last week that a Sheriff’s Office SWAT team and county police narcotics officers were operating under such a warrant when they broke down the door of Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo, shooting and killing his black Labrador retrievers.
But a review of the warrant indicates that police neither sought nor received permission from Circuit Court Judge Albert W. Northrup to enter without knocking. Northrup found probable cause to suspect that drugs might be in the house and granted police a standard search warrant.
Prohibition makes cops criminals.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:01 pmUuuummm, where was this again?
HOLY CRAP that’s funny right there. But if you’re stupid enough to be caught alone in your underwear at 7 p.m. with your mother-in-law, it does beg the question …
The rest, not so much. Kids and dogs always end up on the short end of adult bullshittery. Cruel frigin world, ours.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:03 pmRegardless of what brain damaged thinking was going on I’m greatly saddened that the poor, innocent pets paid the ultimate price. Animal cruelty!!
August 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pmI generally support law enforcement, too, but everybody has a threshold. There’s been a lot of discussion of thresholds lately, but if there’s one thing that just might make me unload a couple of magazines of 7.62 FMJ on somebody, it would be the unjustified and unprovoked killing of my dogs.
I hope the Mayor ends up owning a big chunk of Prince Georges County’s assets.
Yes, yes, I know that honest-to-God drug dealers often use large, vicious dogs as part of their ’security’, but I don’t think Mr. Calvo and his Labrador retrievers really, you know, fit the profile.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:21 pmFrakk! I commented without following the link. Didja get a load of the picture? ‘Zactly how many balding, white, wiener-y looking men are in de drug bidness? Frakk.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:24 pmWT?? Invade a home, and shoot the dog RUNNING AWAY?!?!?
Lawsuit. Lost jobs. Everyone involved in the decision to go forward on this raid should be fired and sanctioned.
No knock raids for minor drug offenses should be anathema. There are lives of the innocent lost or destroyed every year because of the “war on drugs” and officers going in guns blazing over informant “tips”. Corey Mays comes to mind.
Also. Why didn’t they backtrack the package to the Sender?? Just because a package is delivered to my door doesn’t mean I ordered it. (Got one just this past week - now I have additional waste for the local landfill…I hate waste…)
August 5th, 2008 at 12:27 pmWhat pisses me off… aside from EVERY-fucking-THING in this story is the fact that they had to shoot the fucking labs!
THE kindest, gentlest, (and many times, stupidest), friendliest dogs on the fucking planet, and they felt so goddamn, cocksucking threatened that they had to shoot the dogs? Seriously?
Off to the fucking woodchipper with them!
August 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pmFirst thought: When you have a shiny hammer, everything looks like a nail. Sounds like the local yokel just got hisself some new toys for the SWAT.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pmThe stop snitching movement starts to make sense when you see how the cops treat certain people. Sad that it takes a mistake like that to give some people a glimpse of reality.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:35 pmI’m not sure why anyone supports the police these days. Why does every podunk town have a SWAT team? A small, lightly populated county just south of Austin has a SWAT team and I saw their armored car, complete with battering ram, driving on the highway a few months ago.
The military exists to protect the people. The police exist to control the people. I don’t like people trying to control me. That’s what the American Revolutionary War was all about. We seem to have forgotten much.
There’s no excuse for this thuggishness and the only reason it’s making the news is because the victim is the mayor. If it were someone in a bad neighborhood the media would just accept as a given that the guy was guilty and deserved it. The truth is more likely that they are not guilty, but they have no one looking out for their rights.
I think this acceptance is fueled by tv shows like “COPS” where they routinely bash in people’s homes and make these criminals look like they’re just doing their job.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pmBeyond the obvious something is very wrong with this whole thing. It started in Arizona, where some law enforcement types used a drug sniffing dog that found the package.
The package was then turned over to the county mounties to deliver? No way, no how. The FBI or the DEA did that? It’s a federal beef, interstate transport of drugs. Somebody is dirty and it’s probably not the mayor.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pm[weird duplicate - sorry]
August 5th, 2008 at 12:40 pmThis is disturbing because it is actually standard police policy.
Virtually EVERY police force entry unit is trained to immediately shoot to kill any dogs encountered during the entry, whether they are an actual threat or not.
I am not making this up.
This is the norm.
If the cops come to forcibly enter your home, even in error, they will shoot to kill your dogs.
Period.
And no, I am not talking about any entry. If they knock on the door and you let them in, they aren’t going to start shooting. And if they are doing a SEARCH as opposed to a BUST, where they don’t want to disturb anything (possibly to avoid alerting you they were there), they will avoid harming pets. But if they are coming to get you - for right or for wrong - expect your dogs to die.
This is an outrage that occurs DAILY in jurisdictions across the country.
‘Bout time people blogged about it.
update:
August 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pmThat dog runnin’ away was GUILTY.
Otherwise he wouldn’t have been runnin’, right?
August 5th, 2008 at 12:46 pmHmmmm.
Anyone heard of Marion Barry? Just sayin.
There are two sides to every argument, and until there is more information, well, I’ll just have to reserve judgement.
BTW, anyone familiar with Prince George’s County? I am, it’s a shit hole. Not just you’re average shithole, but on a par with Detroit.
The ex-husband of a friend, the three of us were stationed at Fort Myer (Arlington National Cemetery) is a cop there. On the weekends all the cops who aren’t on duty leave their wives and children at home and go to party in Ocean City Maryland with their girlfriends and their kids.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:47 pmDitto rocinante.
One would think that a cop could distinguish between a vicious pit bull-type dog kept by a drug dealer… and a friggin’ black lab. I mean, WTF???? Was the dog threatening him with a tennis ball or something???
August 5th, 2008 at 12:57 pmI don’t doubt that the mayor might have been corrupt and dangerous. I have no idea. But he is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.
I do doubt that a raid resulting in dead animals was necessary. Why didn’t police investigators INVESTIGATE the matter before the raid? Did they? We don’t know. But it sure wasn’t reported. Couldn’t they have staked out the place for a few hours, obtained a search warrant to tap the phone to listen for incriminating calls, then performed an actual search of the premises (without the bloodshed) to look for evidence and seize the drugs?
Again, we don’t know what they might have known or suspected, but nothing in the reporting suggests they had any reason to believe imminent action with deadly force was warranted.
I have no idea what the street value of that much pot is. Maybe it is a million bucks. Seriously, I have no clue. But call it a million.
If the mayor had been accused of stock fraud resulting in a million dollars of illegal profit, would there have been a deadly raid?
NO!
The cops would have taken their time, done slow and methodical searches, gone over taxes and accounting records, found and questioned witnesses, and taken the matter to a grand jury. Then, for lack of actual evidence, they would have tried to find a way to bust him for making “false statements to the FBI” when he answered a question with “gee, I don’t know.” See Martha Stewart.
But turn dollars in the bank into pot in a box, and suddenly the cops are justified to go in guns a blazin’?
Something is seriously wrong here.
So don’t give me the Marion Berry defense. Especially since no one killed any dogs when they busted him.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:58 pmTHE HEADER AD …
“Justice Pays — become a Community Hero!”
Police Link.
I love content-based advertising, RCHL! Teh funneh!
August 5th, 2008 at 12:59 pmThe reason they bring the armored-up SWAT is because they should, rightly, be shot. That is, armed individuals entering your household should be shot and be in fear of being shot.
If more were shot, perhaps some reconsidering of these policies would occur.
Lawsuits rarely do anything as they were just “following dept. policy”.
William Grigg has post after post after post on this stuff, if you think these things are rare and want to see just have frequent they are:
August 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pmTolbert,
What part of PG County are you talking about? I’ve been going out there for fifteen years, am very familiar with it, and have been in and stayed in parts of it that are quite nice.
Not to say that there aren’t parts that are shit, because there are, but I wouldn’t tar the whole county with the same brush — and I’d never say it was as bad as Detroit. That would be NE DC.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:10 pmAnd don’t forget, if they find drugs in your house or car, they can begin to confiscate everything around as evidence in drug dealin’.
Of course that stuff gets used to pay for more police dept toys….and sometimes disappears from the evidence rooms… Quite a money making scheme really.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:11 pmA separate article says $70k, and shockingly, this doesn’t seem too heavily inflated. It was 32 pounds, and in my misspent youth I remember the stuff going for around $100 an ounce, So that seems reasonable for ballpark accounting for inflation.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pmGullyborg,
The reference to Marion Barry was to point out that even elected leaders, so called “pillars of the community” engage in illegal activities and that his public office should not put him into a privileged position.
It appears that he was treated in much the same way as anyone else would have been treated in similar circumstances.
Does that make it right? No.
I am an extreme opponent of the no knock rule, except in very limited circumstances. It appears on the face of the matter that this was not one of those situations and that better judgement should have been used.
As far as whats being reported, well, how many instances do we have that show us how biased reporters can be? A certain Dan Rather comes to mind.
As to “presumed innocent until proven guilty”, maybe you should check the archives of Eugene Volokh (The Volokh Conspiracy) UCLA Law School, or perhaps our resident lawyer, Skyler, will care to opine, it makes for a nice sounding homily but is in all reality a “legal fiction”.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:28 pmTo be fair, the guy was upstairs changing out of his work clothes when the police came in. I don’t think he was getting action from the M-I-L.
As far as the dog running from the room, I think it should be obvious that he was going for the muzzle-loading rifles. (Ok, gallows humor and I love my dog dearly.. but couldn’t resist)
August 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pmTolbert, the proper question to ask is, “What elected leader has ever responded to police inquiry with violence?”
August 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pmDarury:
Sunny. Is. Just. Yawning. My friend!
August 5th, 2008 at 1:40 pmMore on this:
I see your resolve to remain apolitical lasted, oh, a day.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pmIt is not unknown that drug dealers will send a package to a third (uninvolved) address, intending to intercept the package. Don’t know much about PG County, Mayor Calvo, or anything else. Shooting the dogs is SOP, and no, I don’t like it.
III
August 5th, 2008 at 1:43 pmI would very much like to hear from any Drug War supporters who have the balls to rededicate their position in this thread.
The brute force violence of the police in this story is not the exception–it is the RULE. If you want to fight the drug war, you have to accept this result because it is necessary.
In fact, if you actually want to WIN the War on Drugs, you’re going to have to approve of much, much more of this conduct.
The reason is that the police have no victim to put on the witness stand. The only evidence of any crime is the package in the man’s house. The only way they can ensure preservation of that evidence is to use sudden, brutal force. It should surprise no one that a few innocent people, and many many innocent dogs, die in these violent confrontations intiated by government.
EDIT: I wonder how many people a) are horrified by the use of violence by ordinary people in the protection of their property, but b) are not the least bit concerned by the violence of police solely for the protection of evidence.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pmI happen to live in Prince Georges County (in New Carrollton). I will take exception to Tolbert that it’s a shithole. It is a primarily black county (the largest majority-black county in the US), which leads all the local psuedo-liberals to label it as “dangerous, iffy, etc.”–all the pseudo-liberal codewords for “too black but we don’t want to admit we’re bigots.” Yes, there are bad areas, but show me a place in the US that doesn’t. I’ll point out that the bad areas tend to border the District of Columbia & bleed over. However, there are multi-million dollar homes just down the road from me. All owned by blacks, btw.
HOWEVER, what PG County is, along with the District of Columbia, Baltimore, & most of Maryland, is DEMOCRAT. As in, “we’ll tax the shit out of you while our infrastructure crumbles.” We in the Peoples’ Socialist Republic of Maryland pay sky-high taxes, but the schools, roads, neighborhood safety, decays–all while the Dems in charge enrich (i.e. steal) themselves from the tax pool. Take a look at “The Wire” sometime if you want to see what’s happening with most of Maryland (& D.C.). That show is very accurate.
A large part of that decay is also the dilution of the police. Between the area being Democrat & minority, you’ve got an extreme prejudice against law enforcement to begin with. That means a reluctance to pay decent wages or put any effort into recruiting. The result is that noone with any intelligence or motivation wants to be a police officer. We get actual criminals (DC gets ex-cons as police officers all the time), people who barely graduated from high school, & other such. I used to live next door to a PG police officer who routinely beat up his girlfriend, until I told him flat out that I’d report his ass the next time I heard her screaming. She wised up & moved out, but I kept an eye out for him potentially “accidentally” shooting me until I moved away too.
Overall, I’m a supporter of law enforcement. However, this area (& that includes D.C.) has some seriously bad officers. This is also the same area where an inmate who was accused of killing a police officer was strangled in his cell, probably by the jailers. That’s another big uproar around here. But start by pointing fingers at the DEMS who run things around here & are totally misusing our tax dollars. Virginia, which tends towards Republican, has much better police departments.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:51 pmYou have the right to lie down and die, Citizen.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pmOh, I know it is fiction. My point is that the accused is SUPPOSED to presumed innocent, when we know that, in fact, as soon as the police decide they want to take you down, you have next to nothing in your favor.
Not to get too off topic, but a classic example is the seizure of personal property as “evidence” and then keeping forever without a trial. Lesson for the day: don’t carry cash with you to the airport. You will be presumed to be intending to commit SOME crime, and your money will be taken. There will be no trial and it will never be returned.
Back on today’s subject, and as soon as cops believe you MIGHT a Columbian drug lord with an army of AK-wielding thugs inside your home, they are “justified” in storming in with full body armor, tear gas, and guns a blazin’. Never mind that their belief is based on the fact that you have a hispanic maid and drive a BMW. All they have to do is convince a review board that they believed you were a danger and deadly force is authorized without accountability.
Free lessons courtesy of Gullyborg, J.D.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:06 pmThe police never cease to amaze me. The old, “send a package to a neutral address and hope for the best,” is a crime that has been around for quite some time. It is not only used for drugs. actually, it is most often associated with credit card fraud.
You get a credit card number, order a bunch of stuff and have it sent to a house you have cased and know the schedule of the occupants. In this case, if you can’t get the package, no loss, it was bought with a stolen card. Many a geek in the 80’s and 90’s built whole computer systems this way.
Drugs seem a bit more of a iffy proposition, but criminals are not exactly smart. Usually any way.
For the police to conduct a raid like this means they are totally ignorant.
Yes, the mayor could be dirty, anything is possible, but everything I have read so far looks like a third party taking a chance.
Plus, this guy is a mayor. What is he going to do if he is dirty? Flee the country over a package of pot?
Please. This was bad all around, and I feel bad for the guy. My heart is absolutely broken over the dogs.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:07 pmExact same thing happened recently to a Duke University student living off campus
Not once, but twice in as many years
2 Packages were Mailed from Same Firm in Arizona
Some of you may recall that the Durham NC PD is having it’s pants sued off in connection with the false prosecution of three Duke Lacrosse Players as the result of a rape hoax. Some of us believe that the Durham PD is desperate to prove that white male Dukies are druggies. This gave them an excuse to toss the house without getting a warrant.
p.s. In the 2007 case the drugs were mailed from Arizona. WTH is it with drugs mailed from Arizona?
August 5th, 2008 at 2:10 pmGood grief, I don’t think there’s a breed of dog I’d be less afraid of than a lab.
I’ve always been generally pro-police myself, but I’ve learned not to automatically trust someone just because they wear a uniform.
Most of them may be OK, but some really are just jackbooted thugs. And if there’s anything worse than a jackbooted thug, it’s one that doesn’t even have any brains.
I really hope that heads roll over this one.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pmTolbert wrote,
Just to be clear, I am not a lawyer.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:26 pmI don’t understand how the drugs crossed state lines without the DEA getting involved.
It’d say this no-knock happened to the mayor because a county sheriff thought he was going to get his first “high profile” case, and developed a case of Stupid.
If police no-knock raid a location and cops are shot and killed in the process, is the reaction “shit happens,” or does the raid target get charged?
Obviously we shouldn’t be firing shots at cops we’ve identified, but when flashbangs and smoke are being popped visibility and hearing are impaired, the mind is temporarilly addled, and all you really know is you’ve gotta protect yourself.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:28 pmFriggin’. War. On. Drugs.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:35 pmNo, it falls under “shit happens”
I don’t know that this is obvious.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:36 pmShould we just lie down and die too if they get a little too happy and start shooting? The lives of me and mine are of at least the same value (I hasten to say that me and mine are of more value.) as the cop.
Conan,
You might be theoretically correct, but there are a lot of instances where the victim that shoots a cop invading the victim’s home is slaughtered or charged with murder.
Secondly, the law is pretty clear in most jurisdictions that you have no right to resist arrest, even wrongful arrest. You may resist excessive use of force, but that’s a bit of a catch-22. If you start resisting because of excessive force, they can just claim that they are using force sufficient to subdue you because you are resisting.
Your best bet is to take it like the serfs that we all are, that is, if you value your life and your freedom. You’ll have much better odds in the courtroom than in a shootout.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pmLegalize pot. Legalize just about everything. Lots of hysteria surrounding drugs, really. Esecially pot. What a waste of money and jail space. Plus the fact that it being illegal makes the sellers that much more dangerous.
The police where I live are pretty awesome. They unlocked my brother-in-law’s car when the locksmith summoned by AAA failed to show up after three hours. They take pictures with my kids. One even stopped his patrol car, got out, and picked up a piece of trash he saw blowing in the street. They also run a pretty good pedophile sting.
I don’t think they’d like it if I had 25 pounds of weed, but something tells me they wouldn’t storm in and blow my dog away. And you make a good point about framing someone. Another reason to legalize pot. Cops in danger. Civilians in danger. Etc etc etc. Everyone so scared of the criminals involved BECAUSE it is a crime in the first place. This story is fucking fucked up.
I am surprised that more people don’t case neighborhoods in order to have something left on a porch so they can run up and grab it when the coast is clear (knowing the schedule of the occupants). Plea no contest to attempted theft of a parcel and claim “equal access” to the dope in court.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:50 pmThat’s assuming that you don’t end up getting flat out murdered by the cops like in the case of Cheryl Noel or that recent case in Lima, Ohio where a woman was killed while kneeling on the ground, clutching her 1 year old son.
The fact is, a lot of the cops who become SWAT officers are unholy terrors on the community who probably shouldn’t be allowed to carry a weapon for their own defense, let alone have one issued to them by the state.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:05 pmYou guys want a case involving SWAT that will send your blood pressure even higher? Check out . I got a stack of write ups at my blog at that link (might want to read The Agitator too for other information).
Cases like these prove that the cops should never be armed like the military or use their tactics. If you have a situation that’s that extreme, have an exception in the posse comitatus act and allow the military to intervene.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:09 pmRead this:
August 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pmI’ve heard of too many stories like this lately. It’s like the cops no longer believe their role is “to protect and serve”. I know there’s plenty of good ones but there’s enough bad to now be skeptical.
Poor doggies, makes me furious.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pmIf I was at all wobbly in my support for legalization before, a trip to the Agitator has certainly shored me up. My father and I agree on most things, but not on this. The last time the Pater and I discussed the subject, I appealed to his sense of individual responsibility and pointed at Prohibition. Next time, I will have a headful of disturbing facts to share!
August 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pmGive it a decade or so of unfettered PC driven policy, a la California. Soon they’ll be raiding your home for not just that evil dried leaf Tobacco, but that Big Mac on the counter, or the Orita french fries in your fridge. Or worse, for leaving the hallway light on, you Earth-Hater!
August 5th, 2008 at 3:43 pmAugust 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I have to respectfully disagree.
If me and mine are going to be slaughtered because they ended up at 2121 My Street instead of 2112 My Street, then I will take as many as I can with me.
I will find comfort in the fact that the no knock a-hole that killed my child will himself be dead.
No you cannot find enough restitution for such as this.
I will not die like a good peon.
But then that is my choice for me, whether the govt. thinks it is right or gracious enough to allow does not matter to me.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pmmoar
August 5th, 2008 at 3:50 pmFor the record, I do not agree with Conan. The police must always have the upper hand, because by far the fewest people die that way.
I am a strong proponent of police, despite their human shortcomings. I am arguing against the well-meaning idiot politicians and the well-meaning idiot voters who are ultimately responsible for this.
Any takers on my call for Drug Warriors to defend themselves on this thread? Is retrocop still out there?
While serving on a city council, I was fond of saying that if people knew what really went on at city hall, they’d be mad as hell. Or if they really knew how much stuff costs (like mass transit) they wouldn’t vote for it.
I am even more convinced that good people like Felicity’s father just aren’t aware of the brutality necessary to uphold their ideals re: drugs.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:53 pma police dog at a shipping facility identified the package as being filled with marijuana
Anyone else remember the scene from the movie “Top Secret” when the German Sheppard “hits” on the package a man is carrying on the train platform? The Politzi shoot the man, then open the package to find. . . dog biscuits.
August 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pmFrom Rachel’s update:
What I find particularly scary is that, given our nanny-state society’s growing War on Tobacco and Other Social Ills, this sort of thing might soon spread.
Can you imagine the jackbooted thugs doing this over a case of smokes?
How about over foie gras?
Trans fats?
Mock me if you will, but this is all on the horizon. And the people are becoming so desensitized to this sort of police action that when cops start flamethrowering orphanages to get at the Sudafed inside, it will go largely unnoticed… unless the orphanage is next to a cuddly kitten farm… or a mosque…
August 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pmTake it like the serfs we are?
Um, no. That is all.
III
August 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pmOldsmobile wrote:
“Um, no. That is all.”
I was being sarcastic.
August 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pmBerwyn Heights is right next to the University of Maryland, College Park. I lived in Berwyn Heights for a while, and in PG my whole life. To contextualize what happened, let me run down how things work here.
1. The closer you are to the DC line the more crime/thug-culture/random violence/drug violence/gang crap you have.
2. As people move into middle class they move to the next town east.
3. As those people get more middle classy they move east again.
4. Eventually they end up so middle class they move to Bowie/Mitchellville into a gated community.
Berwyn Heights is a #2 town. Plus it’s right off both the Beltway and the Baltimore Washington Parkway. It’s an INSIDE the Beltway town, believe it or not, that makes a difference. There are also tons of hippies, yuppies attempting gentrification, college students and families who have lived there for several generations. It’s a basic PG county town, but it’s not Oxen Hill or Bladensburg, which can be total shit holes. It does have a lot of crime. So, to say that I’m really not shocked that the SWAT team shot first and asked questions later is to say I’ve lived here a long time. Was it stupid? Sure. Is this county rife with corruption? Oh heck yeah. Just another day in PG? Yup. It’s really not that unusual.
The pot was probably meant for a hippie in the neighborhood since most of the college students are home for the summer.
Or, it could be that the mayor and his lovely wife like a toke.
August 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pmI honestly would never have guessed 32 pounds had such a “low” value. I am used to hearing about drugs in terms of grams and ounces, so I would have assumed 32 pounds would be at least 6 figures worth.
And that makes this all the more shocking. I mean, if we were talking about a million dollars worth of drugs, we could maybe think the alleged dealer might have security, guns, etc. But this apparently isn’t even the same ball park of what a reasonable person would consider to be that level of organized crime. I mean seventy grand is certainly nothing to sneeze at, but we aren’t talking Columbians with AKs here…
The cops should have done some actual investigation of the mayor and instead of doing the full blown raid on his house, how about instead directing the operation towards whoever MAILED the stuff?
August 5th, 2008 at 5:46 pmI read this article a couple of days ago and nearly had a stroke. No-knock raids are bad enough, but I have been reading about more and more of them that result in the shooting of family pets. I don’t own dogs, but if anything like this ever happened to me and my cats, the phrase “blind rage” wouldn’t even begin to describe my state of mind.
There have been too many good comments here already for me to be able to respond to each one.
Forget about tobacco and junk food: I would suggest that any pro-Drug Warriors reading this mentally substitute the word “guns” for “drugs” when you imagine this scenario. If the Left ever becomes entrenched in power in this country, this sort of thing will be much more common, and it will come to a neighborhood near you.
August 5th, 2008 at 5:49 pmOh, another thing: I’ve also read a number of stories where home-invasion burglars masquerade as the police to throw their victims off balance. They dress in black, wear face masks, and shout “POLICE!” as they’re forcibly entering a home.
If anybody ever smashes their way into my home , I WILL shoot to kill. I don’t give a fuck who they are or what they’re shouting.
August 5th, 2008 at 5:55 pmNo possible way to sum this whole subject up to me. But feel inclined to say whoever shot the dogs should be drug out in the street and shot themselves. Totally uncalled for BS by the sounds of it and a very badly mishandled situation. The war on drugs is the most massive waste of resources, I think it is time we wakeup and smell the fact prohibition doesn’t work.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:06 pmrickl —
I am SO cracking up right now!
August 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pmJust like in any Turd World country.
What is my country coming to?
August 5th, 2008 at 6:12 pmWapo article gives the real reason for the raid —
“Calvo, 37, has been a fixture in Prince George’s since serving on a regional group for teen leaders while in high school, where he worked on an anti-drug initiative. He was an aide to Republican County Council member Audrey E. Scott in the mid-1990s and has been mayor since 2004. He also works for the SEED Foundation, a well-known national nonprofit group that runs urban public boarding schools. ”
Rising member of the ‘other’ party
Supports alternatives to gov’t indoctrination (’publick skolls’)
Worked on anti-drug initiatives (can’t have that, if no drug users there can’t be any drug war)
Note also that the police in the jurisdiction where not informed of the planned raid.
I wonder which of the LEOs will be getting a poor evaluation this year because only the dogs got shot while resisting arrest.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:14 pm!4 Karat:
Aw, thanks for my very own personalized 14K demotivator. I appreciate it, really.
Unfortunately, I don’t find this topic amusing in the slightest.
But thanks for trying to talk me down from the ledge.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:16 pmMe either, rickl.
Me either.
Trust me on that. And also standing on teh ledge : )
But the thought of someone trying to justify shooting your cat … all I could think was “Rambo-kitteh.”
Which cracks me up. A LOT!
Another unamusing topic. Which is why the hub and I have a serious plan to build a moat and add battlements to our “castle”.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:18 pmAnd that is a real conversation we have been having lately.
You are taking the piss, right?
Please tell me this story isn’t true.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:24 pmlaughykate:
HUH? I don’t recognize this euphamism.
[i r uh rtrd]
August 5th, 2008 at 6:26 pmNope, I read it elsewhere a couple of days ago. And like I said, I was so enraged it almost gave me a stroke.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pmI want to mention the PTS convicted pot dealers endure. Some people argue that it is cruel and inhumane to execute a child raping child torturing child murderer. Can’t we consider that it is cruel and inhumane to make someone convicted of selling POT live with society’s worst of the worst for any amount of time?
Im sure most of us are familiar with tossed salad and all the other horrible shit that happens in prison.
I’m just pointing out some more of the damage done to American society due to the illegalization of marijuana.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:50 pmReally? Sunny Lucas for sherriff.
And 14 K this should explain it..
August 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Hi, Rachel:
Shooting dogs before or during breaking down doors goes all the way back to the ATF’s atrocious ‘Operation: Showboat’ and its botched raid in Waco Texas. Sadly, most municiple and county police departments have followed suit for the expanded funding if nothing else.
Having lived most of my life in Prince George’s County, MD. this story doesn’t surprise me. Nor will the mayor’s massive lawsuit. P.G. County cops have had a long history of shooting first and asking questions later.
The only reason that the Beltway Shooters, Muhammed and Malvo are alive today is because they weren’t arrested in P.G. County; ‘The Land Of The Living Dead’.
Jack.
August 5th, 2008 at 7:05 pmMy question would be what kind of pussy SWAT Team can’t arrest a fat old man before he walks in the door? I think one rookie cop could have handled this.
I’m from a family of military and law enforcement and good cops don’t pull bullshit like this. This shit right here is a result of having way too many cops with nothing to do.
The people elect the politicians. The politicians make the laws that say what the police can and cannot do. Apparently this place has a citizenry full of morons that elects morons that make moronic laws. Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.
The only ones I feel sorry for is the dogs. Labs are by nature very gentle dogs. If they growled or barked at the pussy ass SWAT members it’s because they were probably scared not because they were vicious attack dogs protecting the owners and the so called drugs.
It’s these few instances that make a bad name for all LEOs. I think every damn one of the SWAT members and their superiors that setup this raid should be fired, lose their pension, lose their law enforcement credentials permanently and also be charged with animal abuse.
Gotdam pussy motherfuckers.
Joe
August 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pmA local small-town mayor was arrested and recently convicted for dealing drugs. Of course, none of his neighbors or family had any idea of what was going on. He was the biggest dealer in town, pot, coke and meth. He was taken down at city hall so none of his animals were harmed in the arrest.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:02 pmhas tons of these stories. Like the one of . He has his own category at the Agitator.
Cops busted into the wrong address in the middle of the night. It was a no-knock raid so they didn’t announce themselves, just busted in. Cory was asleep. His toddler daughter was asleep. It was a bad neighborhood where home invasion robberies happen. Cory shot a cop. The cop died. Cory is on death row now.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:39 pmI don’t have any problem with people getting killed over drugs, but damn, having the state kill my dogs would be crush me. I like my dogs. Most people aren’t worth a damn and stoners are the worst of the worst.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pmAs I said, feel free to choose your own destiny. It is your life to spend as you will. I will not lie down and fellate the state phallus just because they claim they have the right to make me. I will not lie down and die for them. Me and mine will not be their latest statistic. You are free to do otherwise. Don’t expect me to cheer you/respect you and your decision though.
Just following policy
August 5th, 2008 at 9:39 pmand
You have the right to lie down and die, Citizen!
I thought there was a general liking for the series Firefly around these parts. Good ideas in that series. Very small ‘l’ libertarian.
The Libertarian Party is a bunch of irrelevance.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:42 pmMe likey your nom de…
August 5th, 2008 at 9:43 pm14K:
Ummm…how did you get a picture of Furball (aka Sugar) in such a violent pose? I’ve never seen him look that violent even when Lucy the Golden Retriever charges at him like she’s going to attack. He’s much mellower than that!
(Quite a shock to see him with a firearm!)
The firearms are out of kids’ reach but easily within mine. If anyone ever tries to break into our house the rule of thumb is to shoot first, ask question afterwards.
Thank God we live in Texas! (Castle Doctrine)
August 5th, 2008 at 9:47 pmPersonally, I’d like to see drugs, at least “soft” drugs, legalized—and opponents of that treated like “enemies of the state” and “counter-revolutionaries” under Stalin or Chairman Mao. We may not own Siberia or Tibet, but we do own Alaska, and having the pro-WOD assholes up there being worked to death would warm my heart.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:56 pmI normally root for the cops, but it’s getting harder and harder to do that. It seems like every time you turn around there’s another story of some jackass trigger happy fuckwit in uniform shooting someone.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=//NEWS02/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo6UwNu7QJ0
There are more and more stories about bad ‘no knock’ raids coming out. People getting shot by cops going into the WRONG house. Thanks to the internet, its a damn site harder to cover these things up.
Right, they toss in flash bang grenades, use speed and numbers while the people are still trying to figure out whats going on. Then if they CAN fight back, and do, they’ll go to jail. If the cops shot the wrong person, then its all about ‘the high stress job’..’mistakes happen’…’bad info from the crackheads’. And, of course, officer safety.
Going by what happened to the mayor, being an honest person, no longer means you don’t have to worry about the police shooting your dogs.
Those damn no knocks are the biggest threat out there. I still see no reason the police can’t wait until they leave the damn house and bust them. Why do they feel the need to go in geared up like Spec Op guys? Then when they fuck up, the tax payers foot the bill, and the cops keep their jobs.
Like I said, I know cops, I like cops, I did Navy law enforcement, but this trigger happy bullshit has GOT to stop. Every fucking town in the country does NOT need a swat team. And every swat team does NOT need to go in with gun blazing, for every call.
(sorry I took up so much room, this is just something that pisses me off to no end.)
August 5th, 2008 at 10:05 pmDon’t you all know? This is the early movements of President Obama’s Domestic Security Force, that’s supposed to be as strong and well-funded as the US Military.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:29 pmTheres an argument going on here over another innocent person being killed by the cops.
To cut to the chase, a cop couldnt ID the target, but still shot. Killing a woman holding a baby.
So where is a safer place I can move?
August 5th, 2008 at 11:13 pmIn all seriousness, these sort of law enforcement issues are among the most important reasons to vote for John McCain.
Liberals like to get all riled up about things like the PATRIOT ACT and decry Bush’s war on our “civil liberties.” But fact is, you don’t really read many articles about cops abusing the PATRIOT ACT and shooting innocent people. You do, however, hear about cops flushing all sorts of laws down the toilet on a regular basis - and then having their actions upheld by liberal judges who have a social agenda.
Look at how damn close we were to having our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms forever obliterated by five dudes in black robes (yes, I am calling Ruth Bader Ginsburg a “dude.”). One slight change of opinion by Justice Kennedy would have meant no guns for personal protection in this country.
We have liberal justices saying no knock raids with live automatic weapons are just fine - as long as the victims aren’t terrorists, that is. Fourth Amendment? What the hell is that? Due process? Never heard of it.
These are the sort of legal abominations that real strict constructionist constitutionalists will never support. And they are also the sort of police state big gummintisms that Obama and his communist crowd just LOVE - as long as we don’t risk offending any moslems, that is.
John McCain leaves a lot to be desired. But I’ll be damned if I am going to sit idly by and let Barack Hussein Obama take over our nation and reshape our courts!
August 5th, 2008 at 11:14 pmWayneB,
August 5th, 2008 at 11:25 pmYou’re right, of course, and, considering the direction of certain state legislatures — ? — all those law-abiding gun owners who thought they were safe because they had nothing to do with drugs had better contemplate where the next round of no-knocks might be directed!
And here’s what happens even when they DON’T commit puppycide (Balko the Agitator’s term) and wake you with flash bangs:
The future is now, at least in some jurisdictions.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:08 amI only have ever found one advantage to my company having the network contract for the County, the Cops all know me.
They tell the new Kids on the Block, I don’t care what some stupid Judge tells you Do Not Kick in That Door. If the resident Dobie don’t get you, the retired GI with the shotgun and the .45 will.
Just pick up the damn phone and ask Dog to meet you at the door.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:19 amIs anyone else reminded of the scene from “A Clockwork Orange” where Alex meets his old pals who are now police officers? They are just as thuggish as ever, but now they wear uniforms and are backed by the State.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:05 ama nice lady named claire wolfe once wrote a book with the title, “it’s too early to shoot the bastards yet”.
this incident, along with SO many others that mysteriously don’t get reported (see radley balko)(does anyone honestly think this would’ve made the news if the guy hadn’t been the mayor?) seems to me to suggest that maybe it IS just about time to start shooting back.
as far as the ’shoot the dog’ thing goes, you’ll want to kindly remember that when the brave warriors of the ATF moved in to kick ass at waco, they first thing they did was to shoot the dogs. the dogs who were penned up. the mama dog and her 4 puppies. in the sealed dog pen. that they could not get out of.
you can look it up.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:17 amoh, and, while we’re at it….
ya might wanna note that the cops said, right after they took down the drug-dealing kingpin crimeboss mayor guy and his dogs, the cops SAID they had themselves a no-knock warrant, so really it’s no one’s fault.
turns out they didn’t.
i wonder if they lied about anything *else*?
August 6th, 2008 at 3:17 amHah! It gets even worse …
, the cops — contrary to what they claimed initially — didn’t have a no-knock warrant.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:43 amGullyborg,
Uhhh yeah, it’s just the liberals who do this. Hate to break it to you, but there are very few judges who are worth a damn, and contrary to conservative opinion, Scalia is not one of them.
If you think McCain will change anything, you’re hopelessly off base.
August 6th, 2008 at 7:47 amSadly, I’m one of those unenlightened people who are not in favor of making pot and other drugs readily available.
Since we have enough stoners and crackheads NOW when it’s illegal, I have a real hard time fathoming how they would suddenly disappear after prohinitionII is lifted. They steal to support their habits now … they’d suddenly find jobs and start being productive if it was legal? Yeah, right.
That said, I can think of absolutely no reason for disguising military-wannabe-cops as storm troopers. Sure, it makes for good movies but damn it makes for bad police. They train these clowns to be trigger happy mindless killers and then they’re shocked when they pull this stuff? Sorry, whenever you train “law enforcement” to be mindless robots, we’re going to see more and more of these mini-Wacos. (they didn’t need to attack that compound either, just arrest him as he was walking peacefully down the street).
August 6th, 2008 at 7:56 amAs the old saying goes, when your tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail …. when your tool is a pseudo-military group, every action will be an armed invasion with every shadow being a gernade tossing terrorist to be subdued.
Nor am I in favor of making drugs readily available. I’m in favor of making freedom readily available, even if it means some people will do stuff I don’t approve of.
By ‘enough’ I assume you mean too many. Can you quantify? How about enough drunks? Enough adulterers?
Please do not argue with an invisible rabbit. No one here said decriminalization would lessen drug use.
I think if pot were legal, marijuana consumers would look and act a lot like alcohol consumers, and just as diverse.
Pete, I think that if you considered ALL the pros and ALL the cons of the drug war, you’d change your mind.
But maybe not.
Hell, we even have a candidate for President who wants to increase taxes on capital gains, despite the fact that it would decrease federal revenue. He just thinks it’s “fair” to .
August 6th, 2008 at 9:14 amThe best way to kill a business is to tax it to death. And you can’t tax illegal drugs, but you could tax the fuck out of them if they were legal.
The best way to ensure that a business thrives is to let it operate in a tax-free and regulation-free environment. That’s what the illegal drug industry has now.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:39 amEverything you say about drugs applies to alcohol users as well. There are just as many useless bums who use are addicted to alcohol; some people are born losers and just need to find that special chemical to fully realize their potential. However, there are also many drug users, like alcoholics, who are highly successful, productive people.
Furthermore, if you want them to stop stealing, legalize it. Most of the cost to buy drugs comes from the black market profit premium.
Oh yeah, and the majority of drug users are marijuana users, and they’re not the group that is notorious for committing crimes to support their habits anyway. They’re also the group that most closely parallels drinkers in their ability to be productive citizens.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:47 amI’ll also add, pete, that you’re far more likely to hear of drinkers creating fights, bashing their wives/children’s heads in, etc. than you are from people who smoke pot. I’m not a user of any of it myself. Don’t drink, don’t do drugs, but I don’t mind those who do.
I grew up with an alcoholic father, and am not impressed with the arguments put forward by good intentioned, but utterly naive “children’s advocates” and prohibitionists (not saying you’re either). 9 times out of 10, their ideas make as much sense in practice as a virgin giving a lecture on the finer points of sexual technique.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:51 amString them up. Whoever gave the order to whoever pulled the triggers, and from the 3rd floor of the department parking lot. How do you get rid of criminals? Off a few.
Sound extreme? People are going to start thinking of this themselves, and they are not going to be facetious about it. You can have the rule of law (which is wise), or the rule of vigilantes (which is dangerous), and the only thing that will decide which happens is whether “law enforcement” decides to serve justice. That thing with the tea in the harbor was back when Americans were polite.
August 6th, 2008 at 11:24 amOn/off the subject of the police, this is a must watch:
“Don’t Talk to the Police” by Professor James Duane
August 6th, 2008 at 11:46 am27 min - May 21, 2008
Mike T said:
Well, Mike, my father died an alcoholic, so you’re not comnpletely unique.
That said … we’re talking about illegal “soft drugs”, not alcohol. Yes, there are alcohol abusers … but EVERYONE who uses grass is a criminal … just as every border jumper is a criminal. No ifs, ands or butts.
While we’re solving all these problems, why don’t we cure pedophilia by decriminalizing it, cure the muslim problem by converting to islam, and fix the speeding problem by ripping down speed limit signs?
August 6th, 2008 at 12:30 pmIt’s odd that so many people can be so sympathetic in this situation, but continue to bash the people who have to live with this kind of thing happening regularly. I grew up in a neighborhood where it was standard procedure for cops to stroll up to us when we’re sitting on the porch just to hassle us, and if somebody’s dog came into the yard, that dog would be shot. No compensation. No apoligies. No change in procedure.
We’d be a much more functional country if the people who were lucky enough to not face this on the regular were able to show a little humility, understand how lucky they are, and accept that people who live in these neighborhoods aren’t born thugs and bad guys, they’re molded over time by incidents like this. That can and should be changed, but it won’t happen as long as people only stop ignoring the folks in these situations long enough to briefly demonize them over some isolated occurance, and then go back to ignoring them. What would you do if it were you? Sounds like a lot of you would stop snitching and have some serious resentment towards, and reasonable fear of, the authorities.
[Who the heck is this comment directed towards, Jason? Are you reading the right thread? Who is being demonized exactly? Who's snitching? HUH???-- Rachel]
August 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pmDudes/Dudettes: That was the whole point of the National Firearms Act of 1938. The New Dealers were afraid a ban or registration of machine guns might be struck down on a 2A basis, but were pretty sure that a tax law would hold up. (Registration of the weapon is incidental to collecting the revenue, dontcha know. And, in 1938, $200 was a hell of a lot of money to pay for the privilege of owning a Tommy gun or a sawed-off 12 gauge.)
Make sure the case with a most unsavory defendant (convicted bank robber) and put in front of a sympathetic judge, add some clerical shenanigans and - voila’- you get U.S. vs. Miller.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:05 pmWould you care to elaborate? (Maybe one of us has a problem with reading comprehension.)
Quite a few of us here have
without having grown up under the circumstances you describe, so I’m not sure I follow you.
Also, does “snitching” have some meaning other than “provide the police with information about criminal activities or suspects”, of which I am unaware? Unless witnessing an auto collision and testifying truthfully to what I saw constitutes “snitching”, I can’t recall when I was ever in a position to do so.
Does calling the police when a largish crowd of immigrant youths loiter in the street, smoking, drinking, talking loudly and sitting on cars that do not belong to them after midnight in a neighborhood where the vast majority of people have to get up and go to work in the morning consitute “snitching”? How about making a call when a teenager I don’t recognize is walking down the sidewalk, trying the door handle on each car as he passes by?
Help me out here.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:21 pmWhat would you have us do?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pmfor the folks who’re squeamish about blanket legalization, a question:
the drug war is 95 years old, plus or minus. in all that time - even as the drug laws got ever tighter and more draconian; even as more and more comparatively innocent lives were destroyed for the heinous crime of ingesting an herb or a pill; even as the cops evolved from officer friendly to super ninjaman; even as little old grandmaw ladies get gunned down by trigger-happy narcs who then try to frame her corpse (kathryn johnston, atlanta) -
even after all THAT, drugs of all kinds are easy to get. ANY high-school kid in america can, if he/she wants to, get his hands on anything ranging from amphetamines to meth to lortab to heroin in 72 hours or less. *everybody* knows someone who knows someone.
oh, sure, they’re *expensive*. but all that’s gotten us is crimewaves by junkies trying to scrape up the cost of the next purchase. as opposed to the hopeless alkies, who can always manage to scrape up the 7 bucks for a bottle without having to resort to crime. so there’s that, right?
after *95 years* of the **utter failure** of drug laws, why do you think we should still have them? why would you possibly have any faith that they’ll ever work? why do you think they’ve failed? are we being too soft? should we make even *thinking* about meth punishable by instant death?
is that why america was founded?
so we could be a police state like north korea?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pmSnitching is cooperating with the police, and there’s been an organic rise in resentment over it, as well as a concerted movement to discourage it over the last several years in American inner-cities. I recall the conservative press going wild over it a year or so ago, and acting like it was the most insane, unconscionable, irrational idea in the world. I think if a few of those people had their dogs shot for no reason, they would understand better. And make no mistake, I don’t endorse “stop snitching”, but I understand that when the cops only come to your block to pick somebody up, not to actually prevent crime, and they harrass and assault residents in the process, it’s a pretty normal response to not want to cooperate with those cops.
As for what can be done? Stop ignoring it. Stop pretending that the people in the hood are somehow a different breed. Accept that a lot of the crazy shit that happens there is exactly what you would do if you were in such an unfortunate situation. And acknowledge that there is an injustice being done in not addressing these pockets of extreme poverty and violence that exist in every city in America. If enough people start caring, then we will see change. Unfortunately, the only people who seem to care now are the ones who have had to live it at some point.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pmAnd your point? Alcohol used to be illegal too, but we learned how stupid that was. All it did was corrupt the police, fuel criminal enterprise and make alcoholics go for expensive moonshine.
Why don’t you gain some common sense and an appreciation for balance in your arguments? The only way that you can post a comment like this is if you seriously believe that smoking pot is such a big deal that it ranks right up there with screwing kids and blowing up buildings.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:43 pmI just finished dinner with some older guys, some of whom studied a lot of history. One of them said this; “That’s exactly what Hitler’s Brown Shirts used to do.” He went on to explain that even though it might not be their intent, the effect of this incident is a message to all mayors in all cities; “This can happen to your family too”.
This “War on Drugs” (aka “Prohibition”) has turned the police force into a government form of the mob.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:03 pm_Jon Says:
Talk about a full circle commentary! WOW!
Agreed. In spades.
August 6th, 2008 at 11:09 pmI am purely amazed a