President Obama would be good for one thing, at least.
I’m very freaked out that Barack Obama is basically tied with Clinton for delegates, because frankly - forget about McCain - if my only choices were those two, I’d pick Clinton in a heartbeat. I would put a Hillary! bumpersticker on my car and a Hillary! button on my hat and I would take any and all public shame by openly campaigning for her.
But hey! There’s a bright side to everything, even the prospect of having a young, horribly inexperienced, terrorist-appeasing, messiah-complexed Marxist as president, and that bright side is he is black.
Why is that so great? Because it would shut up all those European assholes who love to think of Americans as racist pigs.
I don’t remember where I read it yesterday but there’s some article about the tone of discussion in Europe and South America regarding this election, specifically what European leftists think of the prospect of Cowboy Amerikkka electing a black man. They do not like that prospect, because it would ruin their favorite pasttime, which is telling the world what a bunch of redneck hillbillies we are. That’s the Rachl Lukis distillation; it was much more smartly explained than that. If anyone has a link to the article, please supply.
And then there’s lady, who really needs to have her meds tweaked:
If Barack Obama becomes the next US president he will surely be assassinated, British Nobel literature laureate Doris Lessing predicted in a newspaper interview published here Saturday.
Obama, who is vying to become the first black president in US history, “would certainly not last long, a black man in the position of president. They would murder him,” Lessing, 88, told the Dagens Nyheter daily.
Lessing, who won the 2007 Nobel Literature Prize, said it might be better if Obama’s Democratic rival Hillary Clinton were to succeed in her bid to become the first woman president of the United States.
“The best thing would be if they (Clinton and Obama) were to run together. Hillary is a very sharp lady. It might be calmer if she were to win, and not Obama,” she said.
No one seems to know who she means by “they”. Somehow I doubt she means the only realistic “they” in her scenario, which would be the Clintons themselves. Paging Vince Foster. Nah, I’m pretty sure she means all of us cud-chewin’ racists out here in enlightenment-challenged ‘Murrica. Bitch, please. Classic projection.
I have a whole post in my head about projection; I really need to write that.
Anyone else find it painfully hilarious when Europeans talk shit about American race relations? As though they have it all figured out. MY ASS. I haven’t heard of any race riots in America lately. , on the other hand…
Anyway. I’m just saying: a black president would shut some people up who need to be shut up. Too bad this particular potential black president is such a flaming socialist ‘tard. You know what Republicans really need in 2012? A black candidate. Is J.C. Watts old enough yet?
If that’s her prediction then she most assuredly deserves the Nobel Prize for literature. I have never before heard such a wonderful piece of fiction as this.
Indeed.
Tell me Doris, how many blacks have been elected Prime Minister in England? Hmm? None, as I recall. No black PMs, no Muslim PMs, no Asian PMs, no nothing. Only rich, white, heterosexual, Christian, male PMs.
Interesting…
February 10th, 2008 at 12:54 pmHaven’t the only Presidents who have been assassinated in this country to date, been rich, white, heterosexual, Christian, male Presidents?
Fiction, indeed.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:17 pmWhy would they react differently to a black man as president than a black woman as Secretary of State? They will just spend all their time talking about how he isn’t really black. (A component of “real” being, “not president.”)
February 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pmI REALLY wish Dr. Walter Williams had presidential ambitions… or Thomas Sowell. *sigh*
February 10th, 2008 at 1:34 pmAmen, Nicki. I would enthusiastically vote for either of them.
Anyway, if I were Obama, I’d be a lot more worried about being assassinated before the Democratic convention.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:36 pmA few years ago some people in the blogosphere were floating the idea of Condi Rice as a GOP candidate in 2008, the idea being that it would (to use poker terms) see Hillary Clinton’s gender and raise her race. She didn’t seem to be interested, though. I wonder what might have happened had Rice gone for it.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:40 pmCondi is a nice lady, but I think she’s way too conciliatory toward Palestinians who think it’s acceptable to blow up civilians to achieve their political goals and too eager to sell Israel down the river.
ricki - speaking of your assassination theory… I just read that Hillary’s camp is asking the Dems to put pressure on Obama to quit. I also read that Rick Perry was putting pressure on Huckabee to abandon the race as well. I’m no fan of Mike “let’s amend the constitution to reflect the word of the living gawd” Huckabee, and I certainly can’t stand Obama, it certainly makes me think that to a certain degree the party candidates are somewhat predetermined by the parties themselves. Combine this with the intentional near blackout of third party candidates and those candidates who seem to extreme and don’t toe the party line by the media and their exclusion from debates, I can’t help but wonder if the outcome of the McCain vs. the Canklebeest battle hasn’t been predetermined to a certain degree.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:46 pmAlex, a lot of Condi’s support on that front has evaporated since then, with all the things she’s said to the Palestinian leaders and other Islamic countries and groups in the past couple of years.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:50 pmObama’s only half black, so the Euro-peeings would still think we’re mostly wacist bastages. And maybe that means he only gets horribly maimed instead of assassinated.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pmThere seems to be a lot of loose talk in the media lately, and it’s sometimes very troubling. A couple of mornings ago I tuned in (on FoxNews no less!) during a discussion about the possibility of the Democratic nomination being decided by the Super Delegates. My jaw dropped as one of the pundits floated the idea that there might be ‘racial unrest’ if the SDs chose Clinton over Obama. The scary part was that neither of the other two panel members tried to rebut his assertion nor pointed out the danger and irresponsibility of his speculations. I’m starting to think Rush Limbaugh has a point when he refers to the MSM as the ‘drive by media’.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:19 pmClinton over Obama? No way. Ask yourself this - if the Iranians lob a nuke into Haifa vis-a-vis of one of their terror front groups, who do you want to be making the decision about how we should respond to that? If push comes to shove, I think OB will push back. Clinton will cry, wait for the polling data, reach out to our ‘friends’, and then probably do nothing. IMHO.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:25 pmI heard Alan Keyes speak at my college once. He was articulate, extremely intelligent, and has a good grasp of foreign policy issues. Too bad he’s inexperienced in that he’s never held an elected office. But as a Black Conservative Republican™, he’s proof they exist. He’s pretty extreme on a lot of issues, though, and while the Religious Right might back him and thus disprove any racism, he’ll always be unelectable.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:38 pmActually, the only people I wish would shut up are Jesse and Al. Alas, I don’t think that’s possible. But if it were, I’d consider voting for Obamarama.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:47 pmwhy would you give a rat’s arse what europeans think of us? just as praise from such weak, hypocrite dilettantes should mean less than nothing to a grownup; so too should their criticisms be equally meaningless.
should we then also curry favor with europeans by becoming anti-semitic? sneer at the israelis? tell ourselves that empty churches and booming mosques in our country is a “sign of our incredible sophistication, and nothing could possibly go wrong”? should we bow and scrape for the iranians, like they do?
i read where the urbane, witty, sophisticated brits are making their olympic athletes sign a contract (!) promising not to criticize the butchers who run china. bringing to mind the old story about how britain also made their 1936 olympians give the nazi salute to the german brass at the berlin games. “we respect you & everything you stand for, herr hitler!” (there’s a lovely picture of that very moment over at the ‘agitator’ site.) but hey: at least if we elect b. hussein obama, at least those people would be able to brighten their spineless existence by now *respecting* us. “jolly good, chaps!”
then we could proudly bask in their approval.
this *isn’t* the kind of clear, strong-minded thinking we expect from president sunny. or her top political advisor.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:49 pm“Bitch, please. Classic projection.”
You think Doris Lessing is racist? How ignorant you are. Go read African Stories.
“I have a whole post in my head about projection; I really need to write that.”
No, you don’t need to write it. You do need to stop implying that the Clintons order assassinations. It makes you sound like a nasty-minded nut.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pmOh, good - a change in course. Finally I get to address the Dark Side candidates.
Obama gets a free ride and it is truly sickening to witness.
Mitt Romney was hounded for weeks on the Mormon issue - his faith was discussed throughout the media and he was pummelled with questions.
Why doesn’t Obama get any tough questions? Any at all?
It’s like the media are 12-year-old female fans at a Boy-Band concert. They’re teary-eyed with such joy and excitement that they’re 10 seconds away from pissing themselves. They’re fanning their own faces as they scream “Oh My God!Oh My God! Oh My God! Oh my God!” about 400 times more than I am able to write here.
Here are some very relevant questions that really must be asked:
1. Mr Obama, as a young boy, you were raised by your Muslim father in Indonesia and its been reported that you attended Madrassas, where a violent strain of Islam is preached, coupled with hatred of America and Israel and where terrorism against infidels is applauded and encouraged - at what point in your life did you turn away from this?
2. I have heard that you claim now to be a Christian. As apostasy from Islam carries with it a death sentence from Islam itself, it is important that I know where you stand on this issue. Will you declare openly for us, today, that you are, in fact a Christian, and an apostate of Islam?
3. I have heard that your church has awarded Louis Farrakhan a “Lifetime Achievement Award.” As Mr. Farrakhan has been quoted as saying that “white people are devils” and a host of other vile hateful things, how can I vote for you when you apparently support a Muslim man who clearly hates the majority of the American population? This support of someone who is clearly against everything America stands for me causes me to worry about your current “faith position” as well as - what we suppose are - former faith positions. I’m not sure your allegiances are perfectly clear…
4. Given your past, can you convince us that you will maintain strong relations with Israel, our strongest ally in the Middle East?
I am just a hayseed from the midwest and even I can think of these kinds of questions. How come nobody else has? (Well, except for Bill Cunningham).
All we ever get from the media regarding Obama is how young, articulate, black, and inspiring he is. Oh, and he’s gonna change things.
Puke.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:00 pmCareful Fred,
You’ll use up all the issues before Barack’s nomination.
Seriously, good questions.
I do think Obama has been attending the same church for a number of years and has publicly procailmed he is a Christian. You wonder why so many Dems would still vote for him.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:23 pmNicki:
“Canklebeest” - I LOL’ed. Thank you.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:23 pmI ….just…. find…. it….. fascinating I haven’t once heard the term “uncle tom” with Obama. Like I did with Condi. Which makes you wonder, which party creates all the racial static. I guess if you are a democrat - you can just be black, and not a slave to the white man.
Hiliary and her crying gives a bad name to all women. She is going to drive me batchit crazy with it. The Hillary weep count is now at 3. Please make it stop.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:27 pmUnfortunately he also kicked his daughter out of the house when she came out of the closet, which officially makes him Pure Evil™ in the eyes of all liberals.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:42 pmOh goody, a troll:
So she wrote a book about Africa. Whoop-dee-frikkin’-doo. Anyone can write a book.
And you need to stop pontificating on things you know nothing about.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:47 pmRachel,
February 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pmI live in Oklahoma, and J.C. Watts is VERY well thought of.
He’s a strong conservative and a genuinely NICE guy. He was approached(I think) to run for governor of Oklahoma, but his brother was in some trouble (can’t recall, but was not murder or anything like that)
I think he just does not want the Media anal exam for himself or his family.
He would be a good candidate.
btw…he IS old enough.
I’m a Brit and it scares me how ignorant most fellow Europeans are about American politics. Maybe it’s true that a lot of Americans know little about the world outside the US but believe me, it works the other way too.
My fiance is from South Carolina, and her sister supports Obama for the presidency. My fiance doesn’t but only because she’s a republican; she couldn’t care less what colour Obama is, she just disagrees with his politics. If there was a black Fred Thompson, he’d probably get her vote.
I didn’t exactly notice a hotbed of racism when I was over in SC last year. Maybe Doris was in the South recently too and had a totally different experience.
Or maybe she’s just making things up so that things conform with the view of the world that she really wants to have. Just sayin’…
February 10th, 2008 at 4:46 pmThis white Southern female would vote for Watts in a NY second, but where is he?
February 10th, 2008 at 4:56 pmShe was talking about Europeans and racism, dumbass. I’ll be glad to make cheap cracks about Vince Foster and Ted Kennedy though, if it gets you riled up.
As for Doris Lessing and the widespread Assassination Fixation from vapid, VH1-watching morons: how sickening and overwrought. Ooo, President Obama’s gonna be assassinated because he’s an idealistic young attractive leader! And we all know what America does to those! Just look at JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, Che Guevara, and Jesus!
If Obama gets elected, we should consider a string of fake attempts on his life just to freak them out. Stupid hippies. Nobody cares about Obama’s “idealism” or what he “represents.” People got assassinated in America for the same reasons they got assassinated anywhere else: vendettas and nutjobs. Not charisma and grace and magnanimity and “hope.” The people who think Obama is “destined” to be assassinated are the same people who think JFK would have been remembered as a great president if he died at 90, or that Che was bumped for what he “taught” about socioeconomics, or that Martin Luther King had to die because he “represented hope.” Toke another one.
Thanks be to God that none of the celebrity martyrs have any relatives or progeny left to plague us, except for a few half-wits suckling at their family teats.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:04 pm“They would murder him,” Lessing, 88, told the Dagens Nyheter daily.”
Sounds like senility to me.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pmFred, much as I hate to defend the empty socialist savior suit, Obama did NOT attend a madrassa, he was NOT raised by his “Muslim father”* as a child, he’s been a very visible member of his Xian church for years and raised as a Xian since before puberty at least, and he’s no more responsible for what the church leaders say than your average Xian is responsible for anything said by the Pope or Pat Robertson. Get over it. There’s plenty of good reasons to jump on him (like his utter and complete lack of substance, including in his “everything and a pony AND a bag of chips” so-called “policy proposals”), so why beat on fake BS?
Your #4 is a decent question without the BS front-end loading.
[His father was an atheist who was born a Muslim and took off when Obama was two. Obama then attended an Indonesian PUBLIC school in grades one through four, NOT a madrassa, that being what was available in Indonesia. His STEPfather shipped him off to his CHRISTIAN grandparents when he was 10, and from grades five through twelve he went to the fanciest CHRISTIAN prep school in Hawaii.]
February 10th, 2008 at 5:20 pmRachel, Canklebeest was a combination of wildebeest, Hillary and a photo I found that pretty much says it all. I dare you to look at and not come to the same conclusion as I did!!! LOL
February 10th, 2008 at 6:00 pmmightysamurai: Tell me Doris, how many blacks have been elected Prime Minister in England? Hmm? None, as I recall. No black PMs, no Muslim PMs, no Asian PMs, no nothing. Only rich, white, heterosexual, Christian, male PMs.
Interesting…
Sure, Margaret Thatcher wasn’t going to win many beauty contests, but I still wouldn’t count her as “male”.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:06 pmOooh Goody! We’re going to start caring about political assasination again? I mean, I just figured after seven years of the left openly advocating for Bush’s death it was open season for me to create all sorts of lurid fantasies about the death of my political opponents! And Kyle, THIS is what Rachel was refering to when she mentioned projection, NOT racism.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:46 pmNot just Vince Foster. Not only did they have Ron Brown murdered but they had to also murder 34 people to cover up the hit on Brown. Motive? He was going down in a corruption scandal and promised to take Clinton down with him. Google “Ron Brown murdered” and learn the truth! Get the message out!
February 10th, 2008 at 7:30 pmUh seek the truth…
February 10th, 2008 at 7:55 pmGet back on the Ron Paul blimp.
Sheeesh.
poor ron brown. unluckiest dude in the *world*, know what i’m sayin’??
accidentally shot in the back of the head *during a plane crash*. what are the freakin’ ODDS?!?
February 10th, 2008 at 7:56 pm“You know what Republicans really need in 2012? A black candidate. Is J.C. Watts old enough yet?”
Bobby Jindal in 2016! Depending on how well he handles the mess that is Louisiana politics, I’m all for him. Not black, but still minority, if we’re going to do the identity-politics bs. And he’ll have more executive experience than Hillary, Obama, Edwards and McCain combined.
Isn’t Lessing the author who said that the IRA incidents were worse than 9/11 because they killed 3500ish people over 30 years and 9/11 killed “only” 3000 in a day? I’m going with BobG and the “senile” option.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:00 pmCrap. And I’m supposed to be a history teacher, too. : P
February 10th, 2008 at 8:01 pmNever mind. I recant. Not going to associate myself with conspiracy nuts of any stripe.
*Post deleted by author*
February 10th, 2008 at 8:11 pmRe: I have a whole post in my head about projection; I really need to write that.
Please do so. And soon. *tapping toe*
February 10th, 2008 at 8:14 pmI don’t think I want to elect Obama just so that we can “say” we have a black president. I don’t give a rats butt what others say about Americans. After all people are always jealous us. That is never going to change whether we have a black president or not. And if it is scary Hillary photos you are looking for, .
February 10th, 2008 at 8:36 pmExcepting Sir Winston, Maggie displayed more testicular fortitude than any British PM this century. I suppose it’s easy to overlook her lack of them.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:02 pmAre you seriously that stupid? Wow.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:21 amFred:
Me:
That’s just so stupid. Are you really unsure if Obama is against death penalties for religious conversion? Really? This is an important question for you? Just fucking admit that you consider Obama to be a Muslim and quit the innuendo and half-slur. Just be honest and say that you consider Obama to be “teh Jihadi Candidate” and be a lying scumbag for all of us, coward.
Those are not good questions. Obama was a boy who went to a school. Some schools in Indonesia are madrassas, not all. Some madrassas teach scummy versions of Islam, not all. Some are just basic schools. Go to Indonesia, or snopes.com, or somewhere and see just what kind of school Obama attended before you reprint that garbage again. Obama has declared many times that he is a Christian, which makes him an apostate in your book. Yes, he’s an enemy of Islam just like me, an atheist, and you, a Muslim-hating and slur-throwing coward.
If you really need a reason to be against Obama, why not mention his policies, or his proposals, or his something? All this talk about projection, yet the only right-wing things I ever read about him are about his race. That, and the occasional innuendo regarding Islam. Yes, his dad was a Muslim. Big fucking deal, unless you are a bigoted fuckface who can’t look at a man and see anything other than what he came from. How very unAmerican of you to judge someone entirely on that.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:05 ammightysamurai
umm……..Benjamin Disraeli
February 11th, 2008 at 8:18 amNice try, Jon, on straightening Fred out.
But the wages of vocal training for a pig remain the same:
Wastes your time, and annoys the pig.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:37 amThis subject is no fun anymore.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:44 amNasty-minded nut: is that some sort of porn-perusing pecan or peanut? Maybe a new strain of peeping-tom walnut?
You know, writing a book with ‘Africa’ as the subject *really* qualifies one as an expert on Africa genrally, and race, particularly.
Mein Kampf proved that Hitler was really just a concerned, patriotic, left-leaning German, too!
Left-leaning..
February 11th, 2008 at 9:00 amsee whut I did der ?
Just a though re: Republicans & black candidates. There are rumblings that McCain may choose Michael Steele as VP. I think that would be a fabulous move. And think about Steele then running for Pres. in a few years.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:36 am“Welcome to ‘Opinions About American Politics’, the game show where relevance and timeliness count!
Our next contestant is British…
strike one!
…Nobel-Prize winning…
strike two!
novelist….
strike three!
Doris Lessing. Oh, we’re sorry, Ms. Lessing, it looks like you’ve struck out without even opening your mouth. Thank you for playing. Step right this way, we have some nice Rice-a-Roni and Turtle Wax for you backstage.”
Dear [Insert Diety Here], when will we stop giving a wizened rat’s ass what the transnational-progressive arts ‘n’ literature chattering classes (or Kyle) thinks about, well, anything - except as fodder for late-night talk show humor? How about the day before yesterday? Not a moment too soon.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:52 amTully - thank you for the clarification of the facts, this is the kind of stuff that is difficult to find out for certain. I appreciate the input. Still, I would like to hear it from Mr. Obama.
My point in posting the questions is to demonstrate the double standard. Why does Mitt Romney get the third degree on religion and Obama gets NOTHING? At the very least, acknowledging that we live in an age of attempts by radical Islam to KILL THE REST OF US, it would seem that if questions regarding religion are deemed appropriate by the MSM, then one who wants to occupy the Oval Office ought to at least have to answer for his “half-Muslim” father or whatever. I am permitted to ask tough questions, aren’t I Jon? Or should I just shut up and make it easy for your man to get in? Typical race-baiting jerk-off.
And the Farrakhan reference is very important, Jon, you idiot. And Jon, I normally do not resort to name-calling, but since you have bravely launched an assault toward me, you’ll have to get some back. Yes, it is a worthwhile question to ask someone why he would be part of a church that openly supports such a vehement racist! This is not a small matter, so try calling someone else a racist and coward you troll! I am no racist but Farrakhan is! What part of this is difficult for you? When were you lobotomized? Can we, the tax payers, get our money back? Someone botched it. There is NO INNUENDO in what I wrote, moron, it’s all stated up-front, quite clearly. Nothing left to the imagination.
All the Republicans were pilloried just for appearing at Bob Jones University.
I saw a number of pundits on CNN and elsewhere telling me that Mormonism is a racist religion because they didn’t allow blacks until 1970 or something. But Farrakhan hates whites RIGHT NOW.
Anyone who supports Farrakhan - personally, or through his “church” - has no business running the country. Period. The only way to preserve any trust here is for Obama to clearly denounce Farrakhan. I know that will never be asked of him, after all it would be wrong to hurt black man’s feelings with a question. Don’t make him feel any pressure - that would just be more oppression, right? Grow up. Please.
Thanks, Jon, you’re a champ. Go buy another bag of weed, loser, and keep thinking up ways to accuse whitey of some other reason why your life sucks.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:31 amThe real threat to Obama is not some white supremist asswipe, rather Muslim jihadi whackjobs who would consider him to be the very worst thing in their dirty little world – an apostate. Either them or some KOS/DU/Twoofer twit who’d do it and try to make it look like eeevvviiilll white Rethuglicans in eeeevvvviiiillll H’amerika did it.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:42 amRe: Angel
ALL American Presidents have been white Christian, male and (presumably) heterosexual. At least one, Abraham Lincoln was NOT rich.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:20 pmBrilliant deductive logic, Angel. Given a choice, past experience demonstrates that four out of five assassins prefer rich White heterosexual Christian males over…oh wait, there hasn’t actually been a choice in the past. Oh well, it’s like I always say “never get sidetracked by pesky reality when you have an important point to make.”
February 11th, 2008 at 1:37 pmFred, please note that I didn’t have an argument with your criticism regarding Farrakhan. Really, I didn’t. Still don’t. But your Muslim slur really needed a comeback. Obama is not a Muslim, and to ask, as you put it, “at what point in your life did you turn away from this?” is akin to asking when a candidate stopped beating his wife. If you have any actual evidence that Obama was in a jihadi madrassa, agreed with its tenets, and did actually proclaim himself a Muslim, please come forth with that information. No one has yet, other than racist liars who hide behind anonymity and cowardice. I assume you are not hiding behind anonymity, but please stop lying or at least put forth some proof that Obama was a Muslim before spouting nonsense of apostasy.
Really. Prove he was a Muslim. Do it. Or shut the hell up, coward.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:56 pmFred:
You have a very small mind and Jon just brought it out in the open. Don’t be mad. The truth hurts. Go back to raising money for Ron Paul, run along. E in Austin
February 11th, 2008 at 2:35 pmFor those of you who have to crawl through life on your belly, like a worm, as Jon and EricL must do, allow me to express here my sorrow at your pitiful state. But, then again, it’s a personal choice, isn’t it?
With that out of the way, you brave souls ought to read what I have actually written - and you ought to also at least live up to your own standards that you demand of me. Your rhetoric here only provides me with laughter and enjoyment. Like puppies chasing their own tails. That’s what a polemical threat you are.
Per your own standard: You have offered typed words here. They do not qualify as proof of anything, other than you have typed those words. It took relatively the same amount of brain power as it does to make toast.
I have pointed out, and correctly so, that Mr. Obama has not been asked tough questions about his religion, as say, the white Republican man had to. That point has gone uncontested.
It is not my job, as a citizen, to work to prove anything on behalf of a candidate, who, ostensibly, has figured he has the nads and the thick skin required to do so. I should think that Mr. Obama would look forward to the chance to clearing up any doubts in my mind. The burden is on him to do so - not on me. But you twits prefer silence. If there is cowardice here, it is located in your hearts, both three sizes too small. To go along with your brains.
I also prefaced my own questions with such terms such as “it’s been reported” and “I have heard from other sources..” (One source is Bill Cunningham on 700 WLW). Others have been in print, blogs, etc. By prefacing the questions this way, I openly commit to the idea from the outset that I do not know if they are true or not. Get that, tough guys?
The nature of the questioning provides a means for Mr. Obama to address his critics, and, most importantly - (even to his own campaign) - to say it in his own words so that people like me (who have never heard him say a word about his religion), can be assured of the validity of same. So that I don’t have to say something like “Jon and EricL proved to me on a blog somewhere that I was wrong to think I should maybe ask some tough questions that have been bothering me - so instead - is it briefs or boxers?
So Jon and EricL are fans of Mr. Farrakhan. ‘nough said. Amateurs.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:25 pmJon,
I think Fred’s point is that Romney has been grilled repeatedly about his religion while Obama’s former and current religion have received little to no attention in the media.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:34 pmAnd to others who respond to me here with information that seems to indicate that I am wrong - I wish to thank you for the information and, most especially, for your civil tone.
Civility. Something else lost in the culture wars.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:42 pmI do not treat him civilly because he is a gentleman, I treat him civilly because I am a gentleman. Just sayin’ folks.
Seriously though, the scariest Dem ticket would be Hillary / Obama. I asked a friend about an Obama / Hillary ticket and he said if they get elected, Obama better watch his back. “You going to Dallas soon, Mr. President?” See what stereotypes will do for you?
February 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pmThanks, Fred. You have proven yourself polite, but have not done anything to prove that you are anything other than very wrong. I’ll take my “rude” title and go smoke some weed or whatever it is that you baselessly alleged that I spend my time doing.
As for your point that Romney was grilled and Obama wasn’t, I guess we’ll see. Unfortunately, I hadn’t seen any allegations that Romney was a terrorist sympathizer willing to let terrorists have their way with us. Questions about Mormonism are legitimate for a Mormon candidate, and your questions about Obama’s church (I won’t use your scare-quotes) are appropriate for him. However, since he has proclaimed himself a Christian and you haven’t provided a single bit of evidence to suggest otherwise, I guess you shouldn’t repeat baseless slurs about him being a jihadi. And if you still cannot back up your statements with any facts, you are a liar and a fraud.
Have a nice day.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:40 pm“baselessly alleged…..”
Good one.
As in what you and EricL have launched at me. “Coward,” and “Ron Paul supporter” most notably. And now I can add to the list “liar” and “fraud.” I can assure you that I am none of those, yet these are just typed words - and not proof. Please tell me - how do any of us prove anything in this venue? I will be happy to abide your wisdom, should you have the intelligence required to convince me. Yet I fear my time will be better spent waiting for crickets to evolve into space travelers…
I rather thought that our mission here was to write opinion, and at best, maybe persuade some others. But listen up, everyone - Jon has raised the bar - you must bring proof to the table! (Well, not Jon, just the rest of us).
No matter how many turns we take at name-calling, it will be forever true and irrefutable that you were the instigator. A sign of weakness, by the way.
I would welcome you into the fold of adulthood if only you might be able to rub together at least two neurons in your brain and piece together something coherent, and where there exists no insults, or questioning of character.
Good Luck with that Jon! We’re rootin’ for ya!
February 11th, 2008 at 7:29 pmFred,
Proof comes in the form of links to reputable online sources supporting your argument. Frankly, I’m surprised you even have to ask.
I agree with your overall point that all the other candidates are getting a pass about their respective religions while Romney is being put under the microscope. However, the rest of your claims require proof.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:17 pmMightySamurai -
I must respectfully disagree with you. I didn’t “need” to ask - I offered the question “how do any of us prove anything in this venue?” because I already know that the question is unanswerable. It’s rhetorical, actually.
Frankly, I am surprised that you believe that the standard can be so low as “links to reputable online sources…” It doesn’t matter whether those “reputable online sources” support or refute my argument - or provide in-kind services to those viewpoints opposing my own. If this is the standard, then you can definitively declare solved a million different historical mysteries -
Was Nicholas II the last czar of Russia, or was it his brother Micheal, to whom he abdicated in a letter prior to his assassination? Links to reputable sources can be found in both directions…
Who really killed JFK? I believe that it was Oswald alone, but many links can be found, from reputable sources, to the contrary.
How about space aliens and their UFOs? Many links can be found from former government, military, and medical experts declaring that they exist, without doubt. Yet I remain a skeptic. Whom should I believe? Whom should I say has proven a thing?
The fact is, none of this - not my arguments, not your arguments, not friggin’ Charlie Manson’s arguments - EVER rise to the level of proof. Neither do links. I am saddened at the realization that you think this is so. Science is very unforgiving in this arena.
The concept of proof is extremely difficult, especially in a venue, such as this one, where discussion and opinion are what we have on the table.
And as example, your supposition precludes a determination that O.J. was guilty. Unless matching blood in your vehicle, an escape plan with a mask, fake passport, and lotsa cash, doesn’t even rise to the level of “clues!”
Yet he is free? How, in God’s name, is that possible, if “proof” is to be found in “links to reputable sources?” The very real verdict came in a venue where months of time were spent, millions of dollars were spent, several engaged minds were called upon - and still - not enough proof. Yet you want me to see your point here - that links are proof??!!
If you have links that can show me Senator Obama answering each and every one of my questions, I will be satisfied. Really. It will allay some fears, some misgivings. Until then, I would rather not bother with another dozen links where SOMEONE ELSE provided answers for him. THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK on Sen. Obama. It is an admission that I have not heard his personal response to important questions. If he has already given them, fine. Direct me there.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:42 pmJust finished reading “My Grandfather’s Son” by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. This man, without a doubt, would be my “dream” black candidate…heck, he’d be my dream candidate regardless of race! Unfortunatley, he didn’t choose a career path that would lead him to a presidential bid.
If you have a chance, I highly recommend this book. What a brilliant, courageous, inspirational human being!
February 11th, 2008 at 11:39 pmStart (look at the left, Barack Obama is the first item on the list.) Then research your questions on your own using such things as alltheweb.com, yahoo.com, even kartoo.com, and your local library. I know it’s hard for some people to have to use search engines, learn “Boolean” and other terms that describe things most people “get” instinctively, or to have to trust the knowledge and expertise of librarians when everyone knows they’re just a bunch of liberals who are good for nothing other than letting children look at porn, but do it anyway. You might learn a thing or two.
Of course, you’ve already admitted that truth is such a concept as to be useless when it is against you, then ask for some proof against your allegations. I’m just saying you are wrong to say that Obama is or was a Muslim. And I challenge you to find something to back up your assertion. And you have answered with A) What about Farrakhan?! and B) Truth is such a difficult concept (let me offer some Russian history and mention Charles Manson to boot!) Since you have decided that I am a pot-smoking hippie, I guess I can call you a used-car salesmen. Though that would be an insult to used-car salesmen since they show better effort.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:08 amReminds me of the old Chris Rock bit of having a black VP on the ticket. He said the moment the president is elected, he’d be assassinated by a black man–so we could have a black president. The black man who shot the white president would then go to prison–and be celebrated as a hero by all the black men in prison for putting a black president in the White House. Then, at length, he’d be pardoned by the black president.
Chris Rock is way funnier than I am. But you all knew that.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:00 amFunny, it looks like I answered the question just fine.
Actually there are no “reputable” links arguing in favor of a conspiracy. I can point you to a website that very clearly demolishes every argument the conspiracy theorists ever uttered, from the “pristine” bullet to the “impossible” shot.
Hah! Yeah, I’ll just bet.
This may come as a shock to you, but we are having a debate, not performing a scientific experiment.
By your logic, the entire process of debate and argument, along with our entire justice system, is utterly worthless because no one can really “prove” anything since all “evidence” is relative.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:35 amReally - you haven’t seen/heard/read reports and accounts from military servicemen, policemen, Ph.D. phycisists, etc. telling of their direct witnessing of “alien spacecraft?” I’m not saying I believe them - only that they are typically regarded as “reliable” sources versus someone who “saw something” while heavily medicated.
My point being that “reputable sources” do not necessarily equate to proof.
It is not a “shock” to me that we are having a debate and not conducting a scientific experiment. What is shocking is that you and others keep insisting on using the term “proof” which is a concept within the purview of science, and not debate. Unless you want to tell me who was absolutely right - Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle? Rand or Marx? I didn’t realize these “debates” had been settled.
Apparently you and Jon believe that Scopes is proof. I don’t mean this disparigingly, but you guys must be fairly young, probably raised on the internet. The internet is not infallible, gentlemen.
Apart from Obama’s short assertion that “I’m a Christian” he has not addressed some other things like his pastor’s seeming alliance with racist and, at times, anti-Semitic idealogy. And I am already well-aware that he did not place his hand on the Koran during confirmation (that was Keith Ellison) and that he is not averse to the pledge of allegiance nor the anthem. His church’s position on a number of issues, and the absence of any distancing on his part of those same positions ought to worry any reasonable person. But you guys just want to stick to calling me a racist. Ad hominem attacks. Look into what a logical fallacy is, and what place that has in debate.
I know, I know, I know - you can provide me with “links” to support your argument. But it seems you and others will automatically dismiss any links I might provide for you (I haven’t done so because I happen to know that links are not proof). But were you to Google something like “Obama and Israel” you will find a number of favorable links and a number of them not-so-favorable. Where I come down tends toward the not-so-comfortable side because of what I know of his church, his pastor, and Farrakhan himself.
Your closing comment on my finding the “entire justice system” … “utterly useless” is really very vapid. Ought to be beneath you. I have only asserted that reasonable people, in the face of overwhelming evidence, can declare that proof had not been adequately established. Happens all the time. That you believe you can do better here, with a few typed words, and a few clicks on buttons to links - is telling. You don’t have much of a standard.
What we all provide here is better termed “evidence,” and not proof. What you guys offer here is the equivalent of Chamberlain’s piece of paper - signed by Hitler - he offered it as “proof” of “peace in our time.” How’d that work out? You see - sometimes even words directly from a person’s mouth - even a signed document - do not make something true.
MightySamurai, you had it right the first time. I am distressed that Obama has not been grilled on his church and his religion like Romney had been. It shows that there is a double-standard at play. Notice I am careful not to say “it proves” that there is a double-standard at play. Other minds, other bloggers, other reputable sources also say so. I will never offer this as proof - I’ll leave that business to you and Jon.
You guys are really tiring me out. I guess I’ll have to hope Rachel sticks to doggie pictures - then I won’t feel the need to comment. Please - have the last word…
February 12th, 2008 at 12:23 pmdoris lessing is an idiot, just because she won a useless prize doesnt mean she is intelligent. she is nodded at in the UK as that old lady who mutters to herself and you ignore.
i live in the UK, and quite frankly we dont actually care who wins, they will be the same as each other. we had maggie thatcher she was more masculine than the men and she screwed the UK. we have more problems here with the brown (the NON elected PM).
February 15th, 2008 at 6:30 am